to think most would not really want a secondary modern

[inkyfingers]

OK, tell me why the 'grammar school system' is good for the 85% who don't get a place? I love the pace and challenge etc the GS offers (as many MNers tell me), but how does the alternative serve the huge majority of pupils? (cos surely a 'system' has to benefit as many as possible??).

If it's a really good wheeze, then the GS supporters would surely be happy if their own DC don't get places?

At my grammar school we did get new students at the beginning of GCSE's who'd transferred in, same 2 years later for A levels. They aren't some weird cult where others are banished.

southeastastra - schools don't usually cater for all learning styles.

I agree with Lequeen, you can't expect schools to be able to meet every childs educational needs with a one size fits all solution

Mama, the mothers you describe would hardly be at home doing home baking, they are the sort needed to push for better state schools.

PS
I would outlaw home schooling as well. :)

i said earlier you can stream classes

LeQueen we set. I teach in a very different manner my top set from my bottom set. I also don't teach 35 in any class.

I have bright kids and I'm a big fan of well-run, well-resourced comps. Much healthier than the other options.

Hudd, It's not resenting their money and I realise it will buy advantage throughout their lives but I would do my best to stop it in education.

I myself am reasonably priviledged, no mortgage, joint income of £82k and a V good pension to come (final salary) and I will in (i hope a long time please)inheret a property worth around £400K but for all that it would have been against my principals to use a Private school.

I will admit (as i am generally an honest person :) that I might have felt different if the local state schools had not been so very good but i doubt it.

I HATE Ruperts thats why I hate the Monarchy as well.

And they can pay for their own fucking wedding as well.

Rant over

The whole concept of comprehensive education is flawed.

newwave- I think Mathematics is a very different kettle of fish to all other courses. People who are innately gifted in mathematics can shine wherever they are educated because of the nature of the subject- no specialist equipment needed, subject matter changes very slowly over many centuries -unlike physics or chemistry say- , universal truths are unchanging.... the nature of mathematical study lends itself to isolated working - all one needs is one's mind.

(sorry- horrifically worded, hope you get the gist; am v tired)

so if your child suddenly showd an academic side at age 13 that would be too late?

it's a silly system and seems to me like we want other children to fail

If it was equally possible for any bright child, from whatever background and with whatever level of family support to get into a grammar school, then maybe, just maybe, there mught be an argument for the, But it isn't. So there isn't.

And it's not always about class. There are parents from all classe who are supportive and enthusiastic abotu education. And their children are likely to do well wherever they go. It the children of parents who can't or won't be involved, or who haven't got the time or the energy to be involved that we need to be thinking about. And they haven't got a snowball's chance of getting into a grammar school.

so we can gloat about our own

Dream, Gotcha :) Dont know where they got it from, Im Fick :o but cunning.

newwave the problem is you seem more interested in class war then in education. The fact of the matter is private schools produce a lot of well educated and talented individuals in the country so being deliberately punitive towards them would be foolish.

hudds do you not believe in socialism then?

south- no I don't believe in socialism

why not?

Hudd, your being obtuse.

No private education means the children of the well off and wealthy will go to a state school, due to the well off and wealthy normally being pushy, well connected and vocal the state school system will improve FOR ALL.

The advantage for the well off and wealthy is that their children will mix with other social groups giving them a broader social education, a win win FOR ALL.

Far better than the well off and wealthy and a bunch of social climbers buying education priviledge for the Ruperts and Carolines

As for class war, well if it comes to it with the cuts then fair enough although i doubt they would accept me.

No LeQueen a child strong in maths but weak in literacy would not get into a grammar. That is my point a comp can provide for such students and their needs.

LeQueen my school which could be labelled as a secondary moden is an academic school. We send students to Oxbridge every year, as I said before we have classes full of A* students, our A Level results are some of the best in the country. Actually when you compare our most able students we do better than the local grammar.

newwave- I say this about mathematics because DH went to v poorly performing state schools, but is gifted at mathematics- he couldn't read until 9, but by Y10 had surpassed the mathematical knowledge of his teachers. It wasn't until university that he found teachers who knew more mathematics or understood it better than he did.

He lived in a grammar school area btw- but failed his 11+ (well he had only been reading fluently 2 years...) and was rejected by independent selective grammar at 6th form because of the reputation of his secondary school- they refused to believe he could manage further maths at a level, though he went on to get an A, and do S level maths, and gain a first in mathematics. I reckon the real reason was because he, state educated oik that he was had the temerity to beat all their lads in the annual citywide maths challenge