to think most would not really want a secondary modern

[inkyfingers]

OK, tell me why the 'grammar school system' is good for the 85% who don't get a place? I love the pace and challenge etc the GS offers (as many MNers tell me), but how does the alternative serve the huge majority of pupils? (cos surely a 'system' has to benefit as many as possible??).

If it's a really good wheeze, then the GS supporters would surely be happy if their own DC don't get places?

Who said that children who aren't academic are thick ?

In theory southeastastra that would be great, but it is so incredibly difficult to specialise in so many things - well, they key is in the word "specialise" really isn't it?

You don't seriously think if you added VAT to the fees that most parents would a) pay them or b) move their children into the state system do you ?
They'd just set up their own schools.
And since most mothers in my children's classes go to work to pay the fees you'd lose their tax and NI contributions too.

newwave- I fear that movers and shakers will either cough up, or move abroad in that case- they do actually have decent educational establishments overseas I hear.

mamatomany- do you mean set up their own free schools?

its a given on here that most think their children are so much more academically gifted than others

that's the rub i reckon, people need to support others and create a great workforce our children can compete with

but we don't - we just think our own children are so much better than everyone elses

newwave Wouldn't removing the charitable status and put tax on school fees be cutting off the nose to spite the face. Like them or not private schools provide some of the most talented and academically able people in the country. Surely by declaring war on them all you would succeed in doing is reducing the number of well educated people in the country.

I would use the law to stop people setting up their own schools as well. I know society will never be fair and equitable but during education I would as sure as hell try to make it so.

As for the mothers so what, thats their choice, bunch of social climbers

so what if a child suddenly acquired academic skills at aged 15? it's mad to suggest that we can forsee what skills an 11 year old could possess

Or home education but with a group of parents supporting each other with their individual talents, that's been discussed in our social circle on many an occasion. The two things stopping it from becoming a reality is that the fees are less than the salaries people currently earn and I suppose our selfishness wanting to do something other than be with the children.
Not many people could afford an additional 20%.
And if they did move into state school, where do you think these people live, within the catchment area for the very best schools of course.

or the fact that most people work for a living

They aren't social climbers newwave they are people who could use their intelligence and talents in many areas but 80% of them at the DD's school are your GP or surgeon or anesthetist. Do you really want them at home baking ?

Hudd, If the well off and educated had to use the state network they would push to improve it, they would be the vocal people at the forfront agitating the local MP (who's kids would also have to use the state system) and council to raise standards.

I have two sons, the oldest went to Exeter and has a 2.1 in maths, the youngest is at Warwick doing maths as well, they did this from the very good local comp which had dedicated teachers. The thing is that I live in a very nice (small leafy town) area and the parents are educated and vocal, I doubt that would have happened if we had lived in London's est End where I was born.

I would have resented a hooray getting in front because mummy has a trust fund and sent him/her to a private school.

I have taught in posh public school boarding, independent pushy school, grammar school, sink school and a good comp which is in theory a secondary modern as it is a grammar school area.

I would, given the choice choose a good comp every time over and above the others. I do think grammars suit certain very bright kids but most bright kids can and will do well in a well run comp. The top kids should not be full of B grade kids either. We lose some kids to the grammar ( although we are increasingly being chosen above the grammar) but have classes full of students getting A* grades.

In some ways having to compete with a grammar can be the best thing that can happen to a comp because we have to be fantastic.

huh? i don't see what you mean lequeen - schools could and can cater for all learning styles

we seem to have fulfilled our quota of artisans

but try getting a plumber at 4 oclock on a saturday afternoon

newwave why should they be forced to use the state system if they can afford to pay for a private education?
I like you came from a poor background but I certainly don't resent those that have come from wealthier backgrounds.

LeQueen what happens if you are gifted at maths but struggle with your literacy? Do you go to the grammar for your maths lesson and back to the school for thickos for English? We need excellent comps that cater across the abilty spectrum.

I would rather roast my hemorrhoids and eat them for Christmas dinner while being filmed for Living TV than send my very bright dd to the local grammar.

LeQueen no I won't and I say that as someone who has been in a management position in a grammar and a comp and who has a very bright dd.