to think early pregnancy scans should not be offered on the NHS

[nancydrewrocked]

OK I am prepared to be flamed but I couldn't help thinking this when I spoke to a friend recently. So tell me why I ABU.

Friend has just started ttc. No difficulties, no previous history. 2nd month of trying she gets a +ve the day her period is due. Two weeks later another scan no HB. Friend understandably very upset.

But I can't help thinking this would have been easier on her if the GP had gently told her to go home take it easy and then done a blood/pregnancy test in 2 weeks. It also strikes me as a enormous and unecessary cost, especially when many areas no longer offer routine 12 week or nuchal scans.

YABU it was wonderful to see dd waving her arms and bouncing around at her 12 week scan.

Sorry I've not read the entire thread, but YABU.

You've clearly never been in the position of having bled during early pregnancy. I have. I had bleeds at 5, 7 and 9 weeks and was scanned each time. Thankfully DD was fine and is cruising around the living room right now. I cannot explain how much better I felt after each scan showed that she was okay. If I had been told to just go home and wait until the 12 week scan (which would have been 7 weeks after the first bleed) I would have gone mad with worry.

Why should pregnant women not get the very best level of care available?

I had quite a lot of bleeding at 6 weeks. I was distraught. I went to the hospital and I was one of the lucky ones. I saw a heartbeat.

I continued to bleed throughout my pregnancy (cervical ectropion). If I had simply thought it was a m/c I would probably have gone out and drowned my sorrows. I would almost certainly have continued smoking.

So even with a positive outcome, I am glad the NHS catered for me. I didnt get a dating scan as I'd hd the early scan so it didn't even cost more!

To echo what Lulumaam and supersunnyday said I too suffered an infection after my 3rd mc and ended up in hospital on a drip for a few days before they could operate. Even after the ERPC I was readmitted as an emergency with heavy bleeding (through pad to soak jeans in the 20min drive to hospital). The doctors want scans done because sometimes the complications with a miscarriage can be horrendous. I know such complications are rare but why risk a few peoples health, life in some cases?

I wasn't smoking when I knew I was pg btw

Working, years ago a friend of mine was told by her GP that she'd miscarried, after a bleed.

She went out and got absolutely hammered. More than once.

Turns out she'd either lost a twin, or had one of those unexplained bleeds that lots of women get.

I doubt the heavy boozing did any harm but even so - a scan would have made it clear that she was indeed still pregnant.

oh the poor OP... she has had miscarriages, two of them, at about 8 weeks. sounds like she got pretty negligent care, tbh, which has resulted in her thinking aloud whether the treatment her friend got did more harm than good. i think she's been pretty courteous and has apologised. while learning A LOT of stuff...

I agree, Aitch. I think a few posters here haven't actually read the OP's other posts on this thread.

She has had awful care from her GP I agree Aitch. But I do think that are quite a few GP's and gynae's who don't have good knowledge sadly. I've learnt far more on mn and had better advice and reassurance over the years. Lets hope that anyone reading this who is unfortunate enough to bleed in early pregnancy knows they need and are entitled to a scan.

But just because it wasn´t right for OP, doesn´t mean that it isn´t right for others.

Could I just say that when I was pregnant with dc 4 I got a + pregnancy test the day I was due. I then started bleeding 4 days later, not just spotting but heavy bleeding. I just presumed I was having a MC.

A good friend went on and on at me about going to GP and being referred for scan.

I gave in over a week later just to shut her up

I nearly fell off the bed when there was a little bean with a HB.

Had I not bothered I would just have carried on doing things as if I weren't pregnant and not even seen MW for goodness knows how long.

I also have had early scans for bleeding in preg with dc2 and dc5 and in between have had an early MC confirmed by scan.

Early scans are an absolute essential if something isn't as it should be. They may just be confirming already suspected bad news but they also save many, many womens lives.

Have you ever had bleeding during early pregnancy? 'A proper bleed' as you say your friend had?

How would you feel if you went to the doctor and he told you to go home and take it easy? How frightened would you have been for your baby? Wouldn't you have wanted a scan there and then? At least to know if the baby was still there or not?

If you've never been through this experience, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

And a blood test/pregnancy test can't tell you if your baby has died. Only a series of blood tests could possibly tell you that. And even then, if the bloods were showing that things might not be right, you'd still need a scan to confirm it.

And I have read the whole thread, OP HAS herself suffered 2 MC. And she has already agreed she IS BU.

Maybe people should read everything?

I agree, funsized - OP has agreed she is BU, and has acknowledged that she was thinking aloud. The fact that she has had two MCs means that she isn't talking from a position of complete ignorance, even if she did phrase her initial post unwisely.

A lot of heartbreaking stories have been told on this thread, and a lot of understandable anger and passion have been expressed, but I don't think that the continued OP-bashing is fair.

My first post!
All I know is that an early scan at the EPU saved my sanity through my third pregnancy. Miscarried first with pain and blood at 7 weeks, had D+C...pregnant again,, had no signs of anything awry until 12week scan when was told baby had died at around 7 weeks again had D+C. Had I not had the opportunity to have early scan I think I would have been so stressed until the 12 week scan. Incidently the EPU at the hospital was seperate, yet was put on maternity ward for D+Cs! Also noticed a name change...now called a Missed Miscarriage, when mine occured 18 years ago they were called Missed Abortions! Some of the nurses never spoke to me

Yabvu I have just found out about my mmc today at 8 weeks, waiting another 4 weeks to find out would have made the pain so much worse

IT seems early for a scan but if she had never tested, never scanned she woud never know was pg...? how then if she has never known about a pg or MC can she ever go and get testing for it.... and maybe eventually get herself a little baybee?

YABVU

I had early scans after bleeds in 3 pregnancies,the first was ectopic [GP refered me as he thought it was a m/c,thank god he did] the following 2 pregnancies I bled badly but was lucky enough to have two dds.However,I never had a 12 wk scan because apparently,if you have an early scan,you don't get a 12 week one.

If I hadn't had an early scan,I probably wouldn't be here and neither would my dds.

i can understand your point if she wasn't preg but yabu if she miscarriage, my friend had a mmc, she knew something was terribly wrong but nobody listened to her, she basically found out to late that her baby had died a couple of months earlier, the worst part, she knew something was wrong and it would have been so easy to find out if only they had said ok, let's have a look.

DD was my 5th pregnancy. Have two dc. 3rd pregnancy ended when 20 week scan showed dead foetus. With DD had a total of 11 scans and if I hadn't would probably have ended up in a mental health unit. Early scanning available at local hospital on a turn up and queue basis. The queues were never that long. The scanner was essential for people like me. It was very expensive and had to be staffed during waking hours. Far better it was used than not used in the context of economies of scale.

I had a mmc - we were terrified and heartbroken. It took another three years to get pregnant again (pipping ivf to the post - only just) and, yes, I presented myself at 6 weeks for an early scan as we were terrified and could wait again to get to three months for bad news. We don't regret a thing.

My GP once said that should never do a test if nothing rests on the result. On this basis most early pregnancy scans should not be done - many are just for reassurance and not for clinical need. If you want one then pay privately.

My SIL had spotting in each pregnancy and had numerous scans. Just for reassurance really, I guess otherwise if she had lost the baby and had missed miscarriage she would have found out at 12 week scan.

That being said if there is any risk of ectopic pregnancy (eg pain, not just light spotting) then of course scan is necessary.

There is also the possibility that the pregnancy is less likely to proceed with lots of early scans.

Sorry OP, as I said I didn't read the whole thread (first time, that'll teach me!)

Emptyshel, I am so, so sorry for your losses and what you have been through, and also sorry for the other ladies who have replied on this thread and have had losses.

Our EPU is also seperate from the maternity unit. It is in the gynae ward and staffed by gynae nurses/doctors. The same applies to our other 'local' (none are local) hospital.

I had a late loss of twins earlier in the year. It was extremely traumatic, not least as I had already had three succesful pregnancies and had expected that one to be absolutely fine too. I was told that I would get an early scan in my next pregnancy for reassurance. I got the early scan, but sadly I did miscarry. I started bleeding the night before my second early scan, but it was obvious the pregnancy hadn't progressed for some weeks. I then had several subsequent scans and blood tests to make sure the miscarriage was complete.

I am now pregnant again. I knew from CD21. I had to test early as it's now been discovered I have a blood disorder and need to start taking heparin as soon as I concieve, both for my own safety and that of the pregnancy. I am also on Asprin. I have had an early scan already and have anothe rin just under two weeks when I will be just over 7 weeks. The scan is useful to see if I am having twins (have had two twin pregnancies) but also, without it I would have driven myself absolutely mad with worry. We have been trying ot have a baby for almpst two years now and once I get to 35, the risks to me during pregnancy go up, so that's an extra worry. In my case, no real medical need for a scan, except for my mental health.