in thinking that lots of you must have had "surprise" pregnancies which were actually secretly deliberate?

[oliviadehavilland]

I have. Twice.

I was (still am!) in a long term relationship. DH wanted children but "not just yet". I very much wanted them, like yesterday, and got fed up of waiting for DP to decide he was ready (it had been several years since I had first proposed trying to conceive).

We had the space and money and I was very sure that he'd be a fantastic father once it was a fait accompli.

So I stopped taking the pill and blamed a tummy upset when I got the "surprise" BFP a few months later. He has never been any the wiser.

Then, two years later I did it again.

DH loves being a father, often says it's the best mistake we ever made - not that that is the point, of course. He would be beyond devastated and furious (rightly) if he were ever to discover my deception.

I'm not defending my actions. They were wrong and deceitful. I calculatedly decided that if I never told a soul (which I haven't, until now, and have namechamed specially) then he'd never know. I made a judgement that it would work out well for us - far better imo than if I'd spent years getting resentful and unhappy at his unwillingness to commit to actively trying to conceive.

I know several women who have had surprise pregnancies due to contraceptive failure etc. None of them has ever said to me that it was deliberate on their part but I reckon that for some (most?) of them it must have been, just like me.

I'm sure that this happens a lot, just no-one ever admits to it. So I'm wondering...are any of you prepared to admit to "tricking" a partner into a pregnancy? Or am I way off beam and in a teeny tiny minority?

I agree bumpsoon, there are some shite men out there, but my argument would be that we women should be assertive and tell them what we want and be prepared to negotiate hard, maybe walk away if not satisfied with the answer. It sounds cold and clinical doesn't it, but has more dignity and is so much fairer than deliberately getting pregnant without your partner's consent.

How about women like the OP who don't let their men grow up. It is infantilising their partners to not take what they say at face value that they are not ready and mislead their partners into thinking that they are taking responsibility for contraception when blatantly not so as to make up their partners' minds for them, whether they like it or not.

I have never felt so disgusted with a woman's actions. Is this your brand of feminism?

bumpsoon, men don't have the contraceptive choices that women have. They have sterilisation (would you like your 16 year old son to opt for that? Even if doctors who would agree to perform such an operation could be found?) celibacy or condoms, which are less reliable than the pill.

Work has been ongoing on the male pill for many years; DH and I took part in a trial in the late 80's which involved a weekly subcutaneous injection of testosterone. It worked, eventually (took about 6 months to reduce sperm count to an acceptable level) and he got back to normal fast enough that we had DS2 when we wanted to; but such an injection is a long way from the implant or coil for women, for example.

When a man and a woman are in a loving and committed relationship, and she says she's using long-term contraception, it's not unreasonable for a man to believe her.

Sorry should add I haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if reiterating what others have said.

Blueshoes - Let's be clear, I think this man's behaviour is utterly reprehensible. Just because he puts his hand in his pocket doesn't make it any better.

People are calmly justifying the abuse of a child, I find that sickening.

who is justifying it gothanne

?

Goth, you seem to conveniently ignore that that child would never have been born but for the mother's deceit. That her partner would leave her and her child was the risk she took and it turns out, she only half got away with it. I would not blame him if he walked out on her and the child.

If she had any pride, she should just walk away as well for the sake of her child. But I guess she does not. It is quite in keeping with her weak character.

How would any of us feel if we told our DH/DP we were using long term contraception, and he didn't believe us and insisted on using a condom too? I wouldn't blame any man that did this, in fact I think now that it would be adviseable. Not too good for the trust aspect of a normal relationship though.

Olivia

while he'd be pissed off for a bit there is absolutely no way on earth that he'd leave us if he did find out.

So why not tell him ?

Possibly because he will not trust you again ?

Possibly because you will lose "power" in the relationship ?

Blueshoes - However the child was conceived, it doesn't make the father's behaviour right at all. Child abuse is wrong, no excuses.

All of the women who think it is ok for a woman to deceive his partner when she is broody should accept that is is ok for their partner to cheat on them with other women when he is horny.

Your DP/DH should be able to trust you when you say you're taking the pill, exactly the same as you should be able to trust him when he says he is being faithful. I am sure many men (and women) get away with infidelity. And it is not illegal either. But it does not make it ok then, does it?

But worse than that is keeping another person with you by promising them children but never quite agreeing to do it

And to me, worse than that is making someone a parent when they don't want to be, making them responsible for a baby they are not ready to have/don't want.

PS adiff did specify that she was glad she had been born

Yes, I did. And I am.

But also, I am not glad that I grieve for a mother to love me. I am not glad that I cry when dd1 needs something that I never got. I am not glad that my shit mother feels she did nothing wrong. I am not glad that my pain is still with me, at 36. And I am not glad that this just reminds me that I don't have one of the most basic of all loves...

But mostly I am not glad that I aborted a 3rd (unplanned/unwanted) baby because my fear at not loving a baby I hadn't planned crushed my soul.

But hey, who cares about that, as long as a woman has a right to have a baby, who cares that there will be children suffering the world over, hey? Cos mumma got what she wanted!

But at what cost?

And you know, being glad that I was born doesn't make it OK.

It doesn't take that pain away. It doesn't mean I agree with what happened & it doesn't cancel out my childhood. For whatever reason, she was coerced into keeping me. Coerced into raising me.

It is the two of us who carry this legacy. But, to be honest...me...the innocent in this, is the one in most pain, who has lost the most.

I am glad to have been born because I have a wonderful dh & 2 wonderful girls. I mean something to people. But that is where it ends.

But I don't mean anything to the one person I want to mean something to. I always ask myself why didn't she love me & I know, but it doesn't make it OK.

.......50 years since we as women got any real choice with regards contraception and its now been turned against us by a generation of menboys

No, actually, it is being turned against us by childish women who use it to lie & deceive a man into becoming a father.

How is that acceptable? He's punishing the child for the behaviour of the mother. He is emotionally abusing the child. This is wrong, regardless of the circumstance

This is why you don't decide for someone that they will have a child. Because if they don't want one, there is a HUGE possibility that they just won't bond with it. Yes, it is the child who suffers. But instead of vilifying the mother for putting a child in that situation, we vilify the father, who didn't want that child.

Why is that OK?

gothanne, differentanne's last post is the reason why our reasoning is so flawed. In situations of 'abuse' by the father, it is the mother's responsibility to remove the child and put her child over her own interests.

But clearly, this is not happening because once again, in keeping with her actions, the mother only thinks about her selfish needs. But, to you, that is right, isn't it, because women can never do any wrong. It is for the man who became a father against his will to just lump it because he is a sucker for punishment.

Just want to say that my DH didn't want children for lots of reasons - too old (over 45), not ready, too many other things to do in life. I had a grown up DS so wasn't bothered. I got pregnant after GP told me I was having early menopause - i'd had NO periods for 6 months. Anyway, I was as shocked as DH - if not more so having already got a grown up son. To cut a long story short, DD is now 1 years old and DH dotes on her - he said to me the other day: 'I can't think why I was so against the idea. DD is everything to me, I'd be so upset not to have her in my life' - and 'I would recommend a baby after 50 years to anyone!' Sooo - its not always black and white... you could never have found someone who knew his own mind better than DH ... but in our case he readily now admits he didn't!

In situations of abuse by the father it is the mother's responsibilty to stop it?

So women are solely responsible for the welfare of their children (as well as contraception)?

Men can do whatever they choose and must be supported in that by women's sacrifices?

The man in question believes he is neglecting children that were the result of contraceptive failure, and you think his behaviour is aok because he didn't want to be a father?

So ultimately you think that women must deal alone with children conceived by accident?

And that men who don't want children are justified in walking away from those they have?

Fucking hell. But apparently I live in the past.

So ultimately according to you the availability of contraception just makes women even more responsible for any children born as a result of sex.

DH know's we're ttc, but when I was 12 and had just learnt about sex education - I was desperate for a baby brother or sister.

So I hunted out my step father's condoms and put a pin hole through every single one

So ultimately you think that women must deal alone with children conceived by accident?

Oh COME ON! We are NOT talking about accidents and YOU know that! You are purposefully & spectacularly missing the point!

We are talking about getting pregnant without the consent of your partner. That is entirely different to an accident where contraception failed, or both parties forgot to use it etc.

And yes, I do believe that statement when you write in in true context to the thread, which would be....

So ultimately you think that women must deal alone with children conceived on purpose by deceiving her spouse?

"You are purposefully & spectacularly missing the point!" - differentnameforthis

spidookly never lets the point get in the way of a bit of man-hating.

Spidookly I have agreed with you throughout the thread. I don't think you'll get any further with explaining your point, but we'll see. Not keen on what you said about our "waiting to ttc" thread though.

For my part since I stopped taking the pill DH has stepped up to the mark and started using condoms. If we did fall pg by accident I'm not particularly worried he'd be a child abuser or abandon us. He's bought a lot of baby stuff and decided what he wants to call the DC. He's just "not ready yet" (scared). We've got a little bit of time on our side but not a lot.

It's a bit weird that people can sympathise so much with the desire to have a child that they advocate the massive gamble of leaving your beloved life partner at the age of 40 in the hope of finding another partner who will have a child with you within a window of less than five years, but vilify someone who is driven by that same desire to trick their husband who's been practicing putting babygros on a stuffed teddy, but is too scared to take the plunge.

i'm still waiting for spidookly to say it's my own fault if i let my husband attend the vasectomy appointment alone that we've booked for him, and stop taking the pill and then fall pregnant because he hasn't gone through with it. i'm sure he will, because we love and trust each other and we've jointly decided we don't want to risk my own health with another baby... but I would be the idiot for trusting him and getting pregnant in that case?

FFS frgr!

You should be tying the knots yourself.
He may have given the surgeon a bung.