not to understand people with very young children who say they have no choice but to work?

[nesomja]

Whenever there's anything that touches on being a SAHM / WOHM on here, several people pop up saying how lucky people are to have a choice, that they have no choice but to work and basically to stop whinging about it. I can't work it out because I am pretty sure that next year when I will have two under-3s, it will cost us money for every day I work as childcare is so expensive. So are all the people who say they have no choice those with older children or only one child? Or are they very high earners or do they have access to low cost childcare? For me it feels the other way round, that I will not be able to choose to work - but yet it often seems to be presented as if SAHM are living a luxury lifestyle, propped up by their wealthy husbands. Why is it okay not to be able to afford not to work, but not okay not to be able to afford to go to work?

I have chosen not to be a SAHM and live on benefits by actually making a career choice to work "out of hours". DH works during the day and I work evenings three nights a week.

I actually earn better money doing that then when I worked during the day. I am a SAHM during the day but become a professional at 6pm.

Best of both worlds and my children certainly don't loose out.

yes she couldn't afford to go to work because childcare costs were prohibitive so she couldn't understand why people who have young children couldn't^ afford not to work.

I think some people on this thread are making a mountain out of a molehill over it tbh

Chynah - one could say that you were very lucky to be able to afford to accommodate the overall financial loss to your family by one of you not staying at home and doing the childcare. Do you not see?

(yy to mountains/molehills MaMo)

Well some people do have no choice but to work, and they don't like leaving their kids.

So really I don't see how hard it is to understand that it may piss people off.

It's a very emotive issue.

I agree with nameymcnamechange, I think that if before I had children I had a real career that I loved and wanted to continue after they were born then my situation would be different. Then I would probably have had to continue that career in some form whilst my husband and/or me took on extra work to cover the shortfall created by the need for paid childcare. I suddenly feel quite thankful that I haven't found my career calling yet whereas this usually causes me no end of mental anguish! As others have said I think the original post title was much more controversial than the actual question which was really asking how others manage (if I understood it correctly). Maybe it shouldn't have been in AIBU

YANBU. I got a major flaming a couple of months ago for saying something similar.

Tbh I think it depends on the job and wage whether working is worthwhile or not. I'm qualified as an admin, if I went back to work I'd be starting at the bottom and it wouldn't really be worth it (unless family could help with childcare, although they all work ft). Thankfully we are able to scrape by on DH's income.

My sister is a sales-rep on quite a good wage and is currently on maternity leave. They could probably just about get by on one wage but she says herself she'd be silly not to go back to work.

Framey - to make a profit after paying for two children in full time childcare (say 35 - 40 hours a week each), how much do you think you would have to earn?

It is a lot.

Op is expressing surprise that for so many people, in her experience, it is profitable.

By all means show her how families do manage it (I am quite interested too, btw) but don't accuse her of trying to spark off a sahm vs wohm thing because I really don't think that was her intention.

Nope, I can fully understand, YANBU, there is no way at present I can afford to work, costing up childcare, and lower housing benefit, and bearing in mind DP's wage of £16K FT before tax, and mine PT would be around £6K, we would be out of pocket on childcare alone, never mind on travel to work!

I can understand some people feeling like they have no choice but to work, in order to keep up with mortgage payments etc.

However I get frustrated when people on here seem to be unable to understand that if your DP is on a very low income for FT work, and you can only earn min wage, that even with tax credit help with childcare, it often (even with just ONE dc) becomes financially not viable as you would be PAYING to go out to work...in a job with no prospects.

Some people have no choice but to SAH, and some people have no choice but to rely on Tax Credits to survive.

What so you're saying you don't understand that people with kids have to work?

Really?

NO! You really don't want to see it any other way than your way do you Framey??

"By all means show her how families do manage it (I am quite interested too, btw)"

We have always kept childcare costs to a minimum by working opposite shifts. I was lucky enough to negotiate with my former employer an arrangement whereby I worked mornings and evenings, so that I could have afternoons with dd. My partner worked a normal 9-5 day, and looked after dd in the evenings while I was at work, so we only had to pay for childcare in the morning.

DD is at school now. I work in a normal 9-5 job, DH does some work while dd is at school and the rest in the evenings or at weekends. So we don't have any childcare costs at all.

I realise that these arrangements aren't available to everyone, but if you're willing to be flexible, there are often ways around the problem. Yes, it means that DH and I are sometimes like ships passing in the night, but you get used to it.

I don't find it hard to understand that some people cannot afford to work - obviously, if you are on a low wage, the cost of childcare may be prohibitive. But equally, many of us cannot afford not to work, and I don't really understand what's so difficult to understand about that either.

OK- some people have a choice. I did (have a choice) and byworking I made £150/mth more after childcare costs than if I hadn't. That £150/mth was pretty useful. And I had/ have a "career"

Some people need 2 incomes, and have family who are happy to help out. My mum went back to work p/t and my granny looked after me.

some women are the main wage-earner, so need their wage, rather than their DH's (bit at the way it is always assumed the DH's salary is the larger of the two- why on earth would you automatically assume that?)

So many different situations- what a surprise! OP, it may be that in your situation you feel like working will benefit you less financially, but different people are in very different situations, so some people have "no choice", financially, but to return to work. Does that help?

I'm one who has to work, albeit part time.

The trick is not to have two under 3s at the same time, and to maximise your use of the free childcare that comes in the form of preschool!

The 15 hours free preschool pays for 3 of the mornings I work, my mother covers one afternoon, so I only actually pay for one morning. This means I earn 1.5k a month and pay £150 a month in childcare.

Your original post is full of assumptions - that people do not use family for childcare, do not account for the free nursery hours, and that you're paying for more than one child. In my experience, SAHMs tend to have children closer in age, whereas I know many mums who delayed having the second child so that the first was at least receiving part funded childcare when they returned to work with the second.

Actually, I pay for two mornings.

No MaMo, I'm simply saying that it's an emotive subject.
I don't want to go to work but I have to in order to make ends meet.
I know plenty of people in my position too.
I have 2 kids but one is at school so it's easier for me, but also I work part time and on a Saturday so I save on childcare costs.

If you only earn minimum wage or slightly above then without government help you wouldn't make a profit by working and paying 2 lots of childcare.
But with working tax credits, family tax credits and childcare vouchers it's possible to make work pay.
Fair enough if you're in the position where you don't have to and you want to stay at home.
That's your choice.
Obviously if your partner earns enough for you not to be eligible for those tax credits then you probably have a high enough income as a family.

But to say 'am I being unreasonable not to understand people with very young children who say they have no choice but to work?' is a bit offensive to those people who do have to go to work and leave their kids in childcare.

The Op was looking at her position and saying it would cost too much for childcare to make it worthwhile her workiing, she was wondering how others manage it and still make a profit - some have come back and explained their circumstances and some have just stuck the boot in cos they saw everyone else doing it and didn't bother to read or understand her point. Sheep, bahaaa!

begonyabampot - This is what I was trying to say in my rambling post earlier...didn't manage to be as succinct as you!

I wanted to go back to work ... I didn't have to go back to work. Some of us are simply not cut out to be SAHM. I am happy with that.

So Op poked the sleeping lin and didn't come back then?

lin = lion!

"By all means show her how families do manage it (I am quite interested too, btw)"

About 1/2 of my net pay went on dd's child care. She used to go mornings only and I worked 25hrs a week. However after DH's RTA, I had to increase my hrs at work and hers in nursery to be able to drop her off in the mornings.

At that point I changed to 28 hrs but with a pattern of 2 long days and 3 half. The extra pay is less than the extra child care costs, but the ratio is still favourable at about 2/3rds.

It really does depend on how much you earn and what pattern you choose at nursery.

And I def couldn't afford to cut the 25 hrs as the extra income is swallowed up very quickly by the bills. In fact I am currently trying to figure out how to go up to 30hrs without increasing dd's nursery. I'm sure it's possible. Might need a spreadsheet to work it out though .

I had a choice. Work or resign and live on exactly £0 income for six months as resigning would have made me ineligible for benefits. I also have a problem with deliberately putting myself in a position to need benefits. I work part time and my mum helps with childcare.

YABU. you can't work it out how some people can't afford not to work? Well, some women actually earn more than what the childcare cost is. Some women are even the main earners and the husband's salary is not enough to pay the mortgage and living expenses. What's so difficult to work out here?