not to understand people with very young children who say they have no choice but to work?

[nesomja]

Whenever there's anything that touches on being a SAHM / WOHM on here, several people pop up saying how lucky people are to have a choice, that they have no choice but to work and basically to stop whinging about it. I can't work it out because I am pretty sure that next year when I will have two under-3s, it will cost us money for every day I work as childcare is so expensive. So are all the people who say they have no choice those with older children or only one child? Or are they very high earners or do they have access to low cost childcare? For me it feels the other way round, that I will not be able to choose to work - but yet it often seems to be presented as if SAHM are living a luxury lifestyle, propped up by their wealthy husbands. Why is it okay not to be able to afford not to work, but not okay not to be able to afford to go to work?

My mother and MIL look after DD two of the three days I work. Without that we'd be screwed because I wouldn't be able to afford to work or not to work.

AIBU not to understand people with very young children who say they have no choice but to work?

Yes, you are. I'd give anything not to have to work, but my few shillings is the difference between sink or swim. Not sure what's so hard to understand about that.

Yes, after listing her personal circumstances and reasons for and against herself working. Maybe that is the bit that is unecessary and takes away the point of the OP.

BTW, there are other poster's equally confused about what the OP is asking they are being unreasonable about. But hey, thanks for making me feel especially like a dumbass

you adjust to what you have anyway though don't you? Before DS I would have assumed we couldn't 'afford' for me not to go back to work but because my earning power is substantially less than that of a childminder or nursery I don't work. When I do work (freelance theatre director running my own company which I'm yet to take a wage from) most of the time when I DO work it is for free my mum and friends and DH cover the childcare.

I can't afford to work most of the time because I don't earn more than a childminder but I am lucky that DH earns just enough to cover everything for us. But then we now don't save anything, buy everything from Tesco (used to get veg boxes and ocado), don't go on holidays, cycle everywhere when we don't have DS so we don't have to pay for public transport, rarely go out for dinner or get takeaways, pay nothing into pensions etc. So we cope with me not being able to afford to work by cutting back everywhere else so DH CAN cover everything.

If I could work and earn even £20 a week after childcare costs it would be worth it to us, whereas I know others who say if after childcare they only had £500 a month it wouldn't be worth it to them...so it's all relative isn't it?

your welcome Pat

well that's how I understand

Explanation of her own circumstances - question about what's she read on here.........

I am a self employed and employ other people. If I left it 3/5 years before returning to work, I would have no business and my employees would have no jobs. I could afford not to work and live on DH's salary but then what would have been the point of working hard to build up my business. Also if your DH were one of my employees you might be upset if I didn't return to work and he didnt have a job. Then where would that leave you OP?

YABVU and ignorant.
Tax credits/childcare vouchers make childcare either really cheap or free for people on lower or middle incomes.

I can't afford not to work, I also can't afford to work during the day and pay for 3 kids to be in childcare.
I can however go to work as soon as my husband gets in and get back at 1 in the morning just so we can make ends meet.

I think most of the people saying OP is being unreasonable has misunderstood her point entirely.

She is not saying that it is bad to go back to work. She is wondering how her situation, where it is financially unsound for her to return to work, is different from other people's. She asks what is different about other people's jobs and childcare arrangements.

OP, I don't think you are being unreasonable at all.

I am pregnant with our second child. When it is born, I will have two under 2s.

DH and I both have 'career' jobs. Both have to take place during normal working hours, so shift work is not an option.
Unlike a lot of people who say they 'need' to go back to work, we don't have any family nearby from whom we can have free childcare.

We earn just above the amount that allows you subsidised childcare.

I could go back to work, and might well if I can find a suitable job near here (we moved before DD was born).

So, assuming nursery fees are £80/day minimum for the two children, that is £400 per week. I earn approximately £457 per week. So I would be working a full week in a stressful job, both children would be looked after by strangers (sorry, but even if they are brilliant they aren't as good as you: they don't love your children). I would make £57 per week.
Is it worth it? I don't know. If I were lower down the pay scale, then no. About 3 years ago I would have earned £403/week approximately. Is it worth working full time in a stressful job for £3 a week? How does this really help your family?

FrameyMcFrame - wow, that's a bit uncalled for isn't it?!
I think people are being pretty rude on this thread actually, OP isn't stating a fact, she is saying she doesn't understand something and asking questions about it.
It is a completely incompareable thing, everyone will be in different situation financially, chill out

Loopy if you earn enough not to get any childcare subsidised your job pays enough money for it to be still worthwhile to work and pay £1000 a month childcare bills.
I don't know of any nursery that charges £80 a day. £50 maybe. Childminders cost from £3 an hour upwards. A live out nanny costs less than £80 a day.

who gets their childcare free them Framey?

As even on 16hrs a week minimum wage you still have to pay for 80% (soon to be 70%) of your childcare.

exH and I couldn't afford for me to work and pay for childcare, even with the tax credits - the maths still didn't add up. We needed every penny that I earned to pay the bills and keep a roof over our head.

Two children, Framey.

I am the main breadwinner so if I didn't work we couldn't pay mortgage, bills etc.
The number of children I can have is dictated by my ability to pay for childcare.
People do the what they can, dependent on their own individual circumstances. I don't see why that is so hard to understand.

If you have 80% paid by the tax credits then you buy childcare vouchers for the remainder on a salary sacrifice scheme run by your employer it's almost free as it comes out of your pre tax pay.

Yes I know the feeling. I a sure lots of people are in the situation where they are financially better off being a SAHP. It was like that for me. With 1 under 2 I would have earned £2 per hour after paying for childcare. With 2 under 2's my childcare bill would be more than I would have earned. When you have a dp working long hours it is impossible to even get part time work around dps hours. It is hard either way. No easier having to work than not finding it financially viable to work.

I've never heard anyone (else) say that it's okay not to be able to afford not to work, but not okay not to be able to afford to go to work.

And I think the OP is being a bit disingenuous to claim that she really has no idea how some people can 'afford' to work and others can't. So on the basis that I think this post was created purely to start fireworks (

whats to understand? Surely it isn't tricky - just a bit of imagination to think about peoples lives differ.

Some work and earn a wage way better than childcare costs and if you want to maintain your current mortgage you go out to work.

Some work are on lower incomes and get enough child tax and working tax credits to make life financially much more bearable if they go back to work.

Some get cheap childcare through family or friends.

Some are single and have to make the philsophical or practcial decision - work or benefits.

Some a combination of all four.

If your DH (OR DW if you are a man) earns enough for you to stay home without starving to death and being thrown onto the streets then you are lucky to have the choice and I can;t imagine most people in that position would disagree. If your DH earns too much for you to qualify for any tax credits, if you have no acces to cheaper childcare and if you don;t work in a reasonably well paid job then no, you probably don;t have as much choice.

But if you don;t qualify for any tax credits (at the moment) then you are probably reasonably well off and not struggling to stay at home. If you want to go back to work there should be a way in most cases, if you don;t want to then I don;t understand the point of your OP.

Oh didn't notice that bit Loopy
But most do a discount for second child.
If you have 2 preschoolers at home you probably don't have the energy or inclination to go to work and there probably isn't much point.

haha - buy childcare vouchers, salary sacrifice scheme - not by my employers I wouldn't have done

Why not MaMo?

But there is so much bad feeling towards SAHMs, and actually I'd quite like to work (part time probably) but it simply is unlikely to be worth it.
It does make me uncomfortable when people assume I am rich or lazy for being a SAHM. I am neither. I like to work and will never be rich.

cause they were tight bastards who would avoid doing anything that required even the slightest bit of extra work. Having to set up a scheme would have been far too much effort for them.

Can I just ask (wihtout meaning to be contentious ) - is any of this a surprise to anyone. When you plan your childrne, did you think they were going to live in a cupboard at work or that you were somehow going to earn a huge amount of money caring for them at home.

I'dworked out the finances pre DS and it was pretty obvious it was going to involve financialsacrifce - I took a less stressful job four days a week and ended up on a salary half what it had been and then had to pay childcare costs as well.

But it wasn't a great shock to me as I wasn't expecting the childcare fairy to arrive in teh house with DS.

Mind you as one of the few parents that had to prove I had thought through childcare and finances before I was allowed to have him I guess I was more prepared than average

I get childcare free as DH works shifts and is mainly around when I am at work, any gaps are filled by grannies (yes, I know we are very lucky, but the downside is that DH, DD and I are only together for about 4 days per year!).

DHs salary on it's own does not cover our mortgage and bills, so I work 4 days to make up the rest.

I don't think it's that hard to figure out OP?

"so much bad feeling towards SAHMs" not in my RL loopy nor tbh against WOHMs, most people in my life really couldn;t give a shit what you choose to do. I think I must live in a parallel universe to everyone else on MN.