to want people to understand before judging?

[Skyrg]

AIBU to think people should understand vegetarianism before they brand it cruel?

There was a recent thread which mentioned this vaguely, but this is based on opinions I've encountered elsewhere, including real life. So it's not a thread about a thread, iyswim.
Also note I am certainly not talking about everyone, but a surprising number of people do seem to have some strange ideas.

So:
Anyone who does not eat meat or fish is a vegetarian.
Anyone who does not eat meat but eats fish is a pescetarian.
Anyone who eats no meat, fish or dairy is a vegan.
All of the above may also avoid cheese that contains rennet and anything that contains gelatine, but it's often difficult to check this so they may eat it accidentally.

It is perfectly possible to live healthily on the above diets.

Quote: Appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases.
www.vrg.org/nutrition/2003_ADA_position_paper.pdf

The average human being does not need to eat meat. (I'm not saying there's anything wrong with them choosing to do so though).

The usual concerns of a vegetarian diet:
Low Protein
Low Iron
Low Vitamin B12
Low Omega 3
Also low Calcium in vegans

All of these can be obtained through a vegetarian diet in high enough quantities to meet the body's requirements. Most vegetarians and vegans will vary their diet deliberately to compensate for any lack there might be. This can include eating things such as seeds, nuts, chickpeas, soy, hempseeds? etc. Also vegetarians tend to eat eggs and dairy, which are good sources of various things. (We don't just eat plants).
Of course a limited vegetarian diet (e.g just eating lettuce) would not be good, but then neither would a limited meat diet (e.g just eating meat).

There are also positives of vegetarianism, but I'm concentrating on trying to dispel the negatives here. So, briefly, 'Vegetarians tend to have lower body mass index, lower levels of cholesterol, lower blood pressure, and less incidence of heart disease, hypertension, type 2 diabetes, renal disease, osteoporosis, dementias such as Alzheimer?s Disease and other disorders' (shamelessly quoted from Wikipedia!). All of these are based on words like 'tend to' and 'generally' and aren't necessarily just a result of vegetarianism, but still worth mentioning for the sake of a full argument. I personally believe this is probably also down to other lifestyle choices which are also common in vegetarians.

Vegetarianism, or forms of it, are important for several religions. People have many reasons for being vegetarian, which I have no room for here. It is fine to disagree with vegetarians that killing animals is cruel, or bad for the environment, or whatever they believe. However, it is very important that people know it is not a harmful diet.

So, AIBU to get quite miffed when people think it's cruel to bring a child up vegetarian?
The usual argument is 'you don't give them a choice'. Well ofc you bloody don't, they can't usually analyse it and discuss it when you start weaning them! If it bothers them, they can choose to eat meat when they're older. Just like children who are brought up to eat meat (surely they're forced as well, if we're talking about forcing) can later become vegetarian.

I expect this has been done before, so sorry for that, but I'm sort of hoping that at least one person may find out something they didn't know.

Pisces - I'm sorry about your DSs father. I can see why it would very much affect his views on death. And yours.

Speedy - now I think about it, do sausage rolls actually contain any meat?

I'm never quite sure at what stage you'd tell a child where meat came from, I think doing it all at once is more likely to shock them into not eating meat, whereas introducing it gently would make it less shocking.

The other thing that I've noticed is people often get defensive around vegetarians, especially if their reasons for being vegetarian are related to the morals of killing animals. People to see it as though we're accusing them of something. I've noticed a lot of people expect vegetarians to try and 'convert' them.

PlentyOfPockets, I be newish around 'ere, but I've assumed that it was so you could later click on 'I'm on' and read any posts after yours.

It is one of the reasons I tell the truth and stick to facts Skyrg-it is very unfair to tell a DC that people only die when they are old-I stick to 'most people die when old and their body wears out but sadly......'
Unfortunately adults see death as a taboo subject-DCs don't. Adults also seem to squirm over mentioning that a lamb chop was skipping around a field-many of my relatives are farmers so I don't remember a time that I didn't know-it was just a fact-mentioned to my DCs before they even had the language to fully understand.
I have quite a few vegetarians within the extended family and vegetarian friends and I wouldn't dream of trying to convert them, I just think that their DCs should have the same choice when they are old enough to understand and discuss it.

If people saw cheap sausages being made they wouldn't eat them!!

The only time I've ever judged meat eaters was when a couple of my friends watched a documentary about the horrible conditions pigs are kept in, the horrible way they're killed and the horrible things that go in sausage rolls. They declared they'd never eat sausage rolls again, and then just a few days later gave up...

I have no problem with people eating meat if that's their choice, but if you don't think you should and give in just because you can't live without a sausage roll, what does that say about you?!

Sausage rolls? Contain meat? Snort! Lips and arses, mate, lips and arses.

Pisces, how very very awful and sad for you all. I actually talk to my DS a lot about the dead members of my family - he's never met my parents and my bro died when DS was 1. So death and I are sort of old friends and I'm saddened by, but not afraid of it. But at this stage DS is going through a stage of being scared of everything as his imagination develops, so I'm not going to add to his fears just now.

I don't think it is something that you would introduce Speedy, if there is no need-just that if they ask questions I try and be as honest as possible-(without being worrying).

Well DS asked the other day how you go to heaven. Presumably he was hoping to meet his other relatives! So that's when I told him the 'you've got to be old' thing.

I think it best to leave heaven out of it-it causes even more problems.

my oldest son is a fish eating veggie, due to the farming cruelty, and now after a year, is very happy meat free.

he has expressed a wish to be vegan, but as i have another son with severe bean and peanut allergies,(and others) this is not possible.

he will be vegan when he goes to university.

as a family we eat one red meat a week, one chicken meal, one fish, and the rest veggie.

we are always going to have red meat in the home, as my allergic son needs some high iron meals in his diet. he is underweight, and does have low iron levels at times during his life. has needed extra supplements.

we also cant give lots of iron rich veg, in raw or lightly cooked form, due to a problem with foods containing histamine levels, for instance, he cant eat a raw tomato or spinach.
he can eat it well cooked.

food is a huge issue for us, hubby needing low cholestrol meals, but allergic son needing high fat, and veggie son on top, oh, and i have ibs and am intolerant to milk and wheat.

i wish food was simple. i really do.

eragon, I sympathise, though my position isn't nearly as difficult as yours. DD1 is severely allergic to peanuts and has other less severe food allergies as well. To start with I wasn't even sure if DD2 could be veggie in a house where we can't have nuts, but it seems that sticking to beans and pulses is OK (at least we're alright on that front).

However, whenever I take DD2 out alone the first thing I do is buy her a bag of nuts/ peanuts/ a snickers because I think she should be getting some nuts and we cannot have them in the house or anywhere near DD1. DD2 was also underweight when she was about 6 or 7 but seems much better on the veggie diet, actually. Though she's still barely 4 stone at age 11 - I wish I could stuff her with peanut butter on a daily basis!

Added to the fact that DH is appallingly fussy (he'd tell you he isn't but has a list as long as your arm of foods he won'y touch) and I wish food could be simpler, too.

pisces, I disagree. It's been a useful concept in helping him to develop an idea of why he can't see his grandparents/ uncle any more. In any case, no idea of what happens when we die is going to be foolproof when pitted against the probing mind of a laterally-thinking child! So whenever your or my approach starts to waiver in the face of our children's questioning, I'd consider it a useful opportunity to teach them that nobody, not even their parents, knows the answers to everything!

eragon. Wow. All credit to you, what a heavy load. I am also impressed by the fact that your veggie son has agreed to the compromise of eating fish in order to support the rest of the family. I think that's a great credit to you as parents and to him as well.