What are those little red Flowers!

[Angree]

I was enjoying a rare coffee in Starbucks this morning and I heard a shocking conversation on the next table.

There were two girls about 19/20 and one said to the other "What are those little red flowers that everyone is wearing...is it a fashion thing?" The other one said "I think its something to do with Cancer".

I mean really W.T.F, how do you get to that age and not know about poppies?

Sue - I remember the thread went on and on and it got quite heated. I only rmember becuase it was the first time I had heard of white poppies.

Nooka - they sing GSTQ at the Rememberance day Service, sporting events, etc. We sung Advance Australia Fair at school assemblies, sporting events etc.

I don't understand how you can say we need a modern symbol as the poppy is associated with WW1 and old people and we need to move on then say your point is the poppy is not old and I have missed the point....! The point is the red poppy is a widely worn and hugely respected sign of Remembrance for all those who have given their lives regardless of how - the person who died in the trenches of the Somme, the nurse killed when a military hospital was blown up in WW2, the person aboard a battleship in the SA or the person called in a RTA in Irag or someone who lost their life diffusing an IED in Afghanistan. All made the ultimate sacrifice and all deserve Remembrance, I don't see why you would want to differentiate and there is nothing barbaric about honouring their memory regardless of which war or conflict they died in.

Like others I hate the futility of war but hate more the idea of undermining other people's rights to remember and honour sacrifice, whenever and wherever it was made, without it becoming a political debate or causing further harm. If people have now been made aware of the hurt and offence (intentional or otherwise) the white poppies cause then that's all I can hope for - the choice to wear them remains with the individual but at least for some it may be a slightly more informed choice. Like others I will bow out before this escalates once again and causes further upset.

My Niece's Dad was in the army, he is dead now unfortunately. he was also Irish. He never thought anything negative about remembrance Sunday or the poppy.

I am not pro war - AT ALL btw. But all of our servicemen/women/volunteers etc etc in all of our countries are worth remembering, they fought for their country, for their fellow mankind and are fighting too still today - rightly or wrongly.

Sure they wouldn't wat a huge debate over what is most worthy.

"their red colour an appropriate symbol for the bloodshed of trench warfare."

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie,
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

I'm that age and everyone knows what the poppies are and what they represent. I can't believe anyone who has lived in this country more than a year would not know what they are.

The national anthem is a different issue all together. I know the words but I refuse to sing it. It is utterly crap as a national anthem and ours has nothing to do with pride in your country at all. I really wish we could use Land of hope and glory rather than GSTQ, its much more patriotic.

I'd laugh if I didn't all ready know that such people will get employed ahead of way more deserving intelligent people.

Oh dear . What horrible ignorance.

DS2 and I are going into town now. I will buy 4 poppies - one for myself and one for each of my DC and explain exactly what they are for. DS#2 asked me yesterday and I was too preoccupied to give a proper answer

What do they mean now anyway really? when news readers and the like get given them to wear on air and swap them about amongst themselves.

In a way it is about fashion, it's a badge of solidarity, I fail to understand why people expect to be given something in return to show they have given to a charity, just give them the cash without expected a paper flower or a bit of ribbon and more of your money will go to the cause.

And how many people who buy Poppies marched against the war on Iraq?, hypocrites, show solidarity for those who are all ready dead but show no passion when it comes to trying to prevent more unnecessary deaths.

Ryoko: please would you let us know how many of the marchers also buy poppies? I certainly know ones who do and, whilst somewhat surprised that anyone's researched the overall picture, would be interested to know what a comprehensive survey revealed.

You know as well as I do that many more people buy poppies then marched.

I wonder how many people would give money to charity collectors if they didn't get a poppy, ribbon, wrist band for it must make a big difference or they wouldn't all do it.

Can I just point out that the RBL and RBL Scotland are 2 entriely different things, and Poppy Scotland is Scotland's poppy appeal organisers.
The Scottish poppy is different to the ones sold elsehwere in the UK. it doesn't have a leaf for a start, a move which saves Poppy Scotland £15,00 a year, money which is better spent elsewhere.
The RBL Scotland organises the Remberance parades throughout the country

That is really sad, OP. Did you put them straight or leave them in their ignorance?

The poppy is such an important symbol, I thought they taught about it in primary schools still - or is that yet another thing that has been abandoned in case it "upsets" someone?

Maybe because at the time, many people thought the war just. Or that they do not want to express themselves in that way. Or many other myriad reasons.

The Poppy Appeal is about honouring those who gave so much for our freedoms, including that of expressing ones opinions in the way of ones choosing.

I hope all those who exercise those freedoms will find it in their hearts to acknowledge the price that so many paid in order that they can do so.

It hasnt been abandoned in my DS's primary school. He is 8 now but has been able to tell me (in child like terms) what the poppy is for and what it represents.

However, I still do talk to him about it at this time every year.

I don't see it as his school's responsibility but mine. I am grateful for what the school has done but feel it is my responsibility to talk to him about cultural or moral issues.

But it's part of the history of the country and should be part of education as well, JoBettany - possibly just IMO but factually as well.

My Dad goes into the local primary schools to give talks about the poppies and Remebrance Day (he's a local distributor of the poppy boxes and wreaths and organises the Remembrance Day parade in his town). So I know those children know about it.

or even Remembrance Day

The point is though, that it's not enough just for the school to discuss/teach about Remembrance Day.

If people consider it to be an important part of their history and culture it should be important enough to talk about at home too.

I believe strongly that as a parent I have a huge role to play in the education of my son and do not expect the only place where he learns to be his school.

I think it's great what your dad is doing and think that visitors to school, bringing experience from RL is also a vital part of a child's education. I wish there was more emphasis on this in schools.

I've got the before and after recon photo's for many WW2 raids including the dam busters and firestorm raids over germany.

show that to the kids in school, let them see what war is really about and let them be told that those who fought in WW1 where promised by the government that it would be the last time such action would be needed (a stupid promise I know).

Pictures of concentration camps don't make great viewing either, and I doubt a totalitarian and Aryan-supremacist Europe would have looked very good either.

Remembrance does not celebrate or glorify war, indeed it is almost entirely about the terrible human cost. As well as supporting those damaged by current and recent conflicts, RBL does an amazing amount for the WW2 generation who gave so much for our current freedoms.

Including the freedom to disagree.