to want a real fur coat

[choufleur]

I don't me made from baby seals or anything endangered but a rabbit one maybe.

I eat rabbit, so can't see the problem with wearing a coat made from a by product.

Persian lamb

As in made from the flayed skins of fetal lambs, because the curl drops once they are 3 days old.

I feel that wearing fur of any vintage condones it as a choice.
So I really do think YABU, OP

A fur coat isn't yours to have.

Besides, what about <a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=www.notmytribe.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/peta-shirley-manson-fur.jpg&imgrefurl=notmytribe.com/2007/heres-the-rest-of-your-fur-coat-82223.html&usg=__ydWycAznjUe9Dg1CnUBWFXQzqn4=&h=560&w=425&sz=31&hl=en&start=0&sig2=VG-Rb387A98Y1Wg4LY7iZg&zoom=1&tbnid=A9PEUw2T054YjM:&tbnh=146&tbnw=111&ei=Zb7ETOucE5S7jAfInbW4BQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthe%2Brest%2Bof%2Byour%2Bfur%2Bcoat%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3Dvrp%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D566%26tbs%3Disch:1%26prmd%3Div&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=126&vpy=51&dur=5155&hovh=258&hovw=196&tx=123&ty=182&oei=Kr7ETMKFN5SE5AaAoui5Aw&esq=3&page=1&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the rest of it?

Oh... and if I met you wearing your fur coat I'd have no hesitation in throwing a pot of gloss paint over it.

Why Val? Do I have the right to throw a pot of gloss over your car?

Or to firebomb the butcher's?

YANBU, they are lovely and warm and not everyone is anti fur. People will most likely think it's fake and not accost you in the street!
I bought a vintage coat in Camden Market years ago really cheap and it was gorgeous if a little heavy. I'd look for something quite short to be able to wear in non arctic conditions.
I wore mine a lot in Poland but then moved somewhere very hot.

You'd have a job Dione. :o

But, if I had one, and it was made of the fur and skin of a dead animal then I think I'd have to concede that you had the higher moral ground.

The comparison with meat production is false.

Farmed meat isn't great, if you care about animal welfare, but at least it's a cheap & efficient way of mass-producing protein.

Farmed fur is certainly not a cheap & efficient way of mass-producing warm clothing.

It uses hideous cruelty to produce a garment whose 'status' is inextricably linked to the fact that it's an indulgently expensive way of making a nice warm coat.

Is there such a thing as higher welfare fur? Any awareness at all in the industry that it might be desirable to rear animals bred for fur in decent conditions & kill them humanely?

& if it's so acceptable to everyone except a few silly over-sensitive types, why doesn't every town have breeding farms where dalmatians, say, are bred for fur?

It's revolting.

The warmest thing I've ever owned is my Dad's old air force jacket. All manmade materials, and I've skied through gales and snowstorms with only a t-shirt underneath it and been lovely toasty. It's still going strong 50 years after he got out of the service.

So if you want to buy vintage and you're looking to keep warm, you're looking in the wrong places on eBay.

Go for fur if you like. The 'silent majority' will think you're cruel, and the vocal minority will tell you so.

Val, you have a fur covered and lined butcher's van?[hgrin]
Coooooool. Do you do game? My family and I are really into game.

Bugger, OP, why didn't you start this thread last month, when I had an article to write about fur fetishism?
I have very little time for anti-fur activists as most of them seem to be thrilled to bits with having found a way to justify misogyny - once had a ruck with one in a shop doorway for grabbing me from behind (therefore scaring me) in order to make a big anti-fur speech when I was wearing a really, really obviously fake fur.... I'm not really bothered one way or the other(though if anyone wants a nice mink coat PM me as have my grandmother's taking up wardrobe space and it doesn't fit or suit me) though I am still a little bit put out with my mum that she wouldn't let me have the cat to be made into gloves when he died. No that's not anti-fur satire - what is wrong with using the skin of an animal that lived a happy life and died of natural causes? Anyone who wants to make a pair of shoes or a jacket out of me when I'm gone is welcome to do so. (Only wait till I have actually died by myself please...)

Solid: How about a baby one that has never lived its life and dies a bloody painful death.
www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-clothing/canadian-seal-slaughter.aspx

www.care2.com/causes/animal-welfare/blog/canadian-seal-hunters-come-home-early-but-the-hunt-was-brutal/

14 days FFS. how is 14 days old not a baby?! That isn't a long and happy life.
The animals which are used in fur coats don't get a nice happy life and a painless death, they get tortured.
Minks are skinned alive for their fur. Anyone fancy having their skin ripped off while they are still alive? Didn't think so.

Oh you can make me a frock of abortions if you want...
I eat meat that's come from animals that lived happy lives and were humanely dispatched, where possible. I have a mate who's a specialist furrier - all stock is carefully sourced to be from meatn by products or humane culls - pr zoos when someting pops its lclogs. Once something has died what does it matter if you eat it, wear it or have sex with it?

I have two fur coats - one vintage and one contemporary - I wear both of them, albeit occasionally. I also have leather gloves and shoes. I understand the views of those on here (and in RL) who object to fur (with whatever degree of vehemence) and I respect those whose views are consistent with their views on other aspects of animal welfare - i.e they are also vegan or veggie, object to fox hunting, don't allow their children to cage animals as pets, probably don't keep cats as pets themselves (given that they are well known murderers of all things small and fluffy etc etc etc.)

However, I do struggle to show the same level of respect to those who are judgmental about wearing fur, but are themselves comfortable about buying budget meat - be if from the supermarket, takeaways, sandwich shops - whatever.

Defra says, the number of birds killed for meat each year in the UK is 850 million chickens, 23 million turkeys and 20 million ducks. Over 90% of these are raised in intensively farmed factory conditions and killed in ways that most people find equally disturbing. Plus also all the millions of pigs, cows, lambs etc etc etc. We all know this story.

So if you're one of the people buying these chickens each week, then I'm going to find it pretty hard to sit still and take a moral beating from you over my choice to own two fur coats.

For the record, I have avoided intensively farmed meat for a couple of years now - so that's almost no meat-based takeaways or shop sandwiches in the howdid household, and only meat from traceable free-range, ethically slaughtered sources served on our plates. We eat a lot less meat than other people, and if there's no cruelty-free choices available then we eat veggie. For the record, this means I get to offend lots of well-meaning relatives when they cook for us

For those of you who are veggie, vegan etc, morally beat away. I admire your strength of character and your consistent values. Please be sure to be equally vehement about intensive farming as/when the opportunity arises (as, I'm sure you are)

Down is warmer, and wool is too. If you really are seeking for warmth, you need to consider things like the climate you will be wearing your coat. Dry cold is different from wet cold. A wool coat takes longer to dry that a down coat, do you need a moisture or wind barrier?

Rabbit fur isn't that warm, usually just a "fun" fashion type coat or trim on down or wool coats.
Is there a link to the coat, just wondering what it looks like?
yourhome.shoptoit.ca/library/how-to-buy-a-winter-jacket-down-wool-fleece-raincoats-and-leather-outerwear/571

Cripes parts of this thread make for really depressing reading.

I grew up in Canada, eastern Canada at that, where the temps have been known to reach -35 degrees or colder with windchill, and we NEVER had to wear fur to keep warm. There are man made options now folks! get yourself a lined winter parka if you're that cold.

Don't really see the comparison between pouring paint over a coat...and firebombing a butchers. You'd have to be pretty thick to see on actually. Oh wait.

SolidButShamblingUndeadBrass, animals used for fur haven't lived "happy lives and were humanely dispatched" - have you not opened any of the links posted or read the posts????

Your article must've been very well researched.

I would have absolutely no hesitation in confronting someone wearing fur. If they're vile enough to wear something that says "I condone abuse and violence", then they can handle a few harsh words themselves.

Howdidthishappen, I could kiss you!

If people want to take a moral and ethical position on meat/fur etc due to animal welfare issues, then anything less than complete veganism is hypocritical frankly. And I say that having worked in the field of meat and dairy market commodity analysis for many years.

Valhalloween, are your dogs fed on a vegetarian feed?

As three of us on here at least have said - we are vegan.

My dog is fed V-Dog and plenty of leftovers. She has a beautiful fur coat.

Then I have a great deal of respect for you Pastaplease. You stand up for what you believe in, you try and engage people positively, and you follow through by living your life according to those principles. There are very, very few people who can say such things about themselves.

MinnieMummy Sun 24-Oct-10 22:12:33
For all those people who think they are acceptable because they keep you warm... if you want to maximise the warmth factor, you'd actually wear them inside out.

You mean, like the animals themselves do?

You have no clue.

Thank you, Sparkle, but we're all hypocrites at times, but you do what you can, don't you? This is why I cannot understand why someone would wear fur. Why keep such a horrific trade operating by buying fur clothing? The 'it keeps me warm' argument is a total nonsense. As others have said, there are plenty of warmer, more practical materials to use.

No animal deserves to die a horrible death for the sake of a fur coat, or a bit of fluff on a boot. It's vanity, pure and simple.

i once tried on a chinchilla fur coat in Bloomindales. it cost $35,000

i don't have a strong opinion on fur but had to try one on for the sheer novelty, never having seen real fur before.

Well all I can conclude is that I have no principles. But at least I'm not hypocritical as I already eat meat, have my nice warm sheepskin boots on this morning, have a leather bag and may decide to buy a second hand fur coat.