To think that every time people want to talk about those on benefits

[chibi]

they should have to mention that most benefit claimants are actually working, and that due to crap wages or expensive housing or both most people recording benefits like hb ctc or whatever actually need them and no amount of pulling up by bootstraps or getting on ones bike is going to change that

I just feel that all of the fighting over who deserves the axe/who's most feckless/etc is distracting from the key point that surely there is something wrong here when a big chunk of your working population need wages topping up by the government in order to live

If it matters - the benefits claimants I have known do work..........but it is all unofficial, for cash in hand.

i think this too....a point which is always missed!!! what the hell is wrong with this country??

also,the way us single mums are slated. please remember there is only ONE of us per houselhold,no DH/DP due home at 6 to take over/fix the leaky taps/bring some milk on way home etc etc.....

oh,and benefit claimants DO pay tax!!

chibi - I completely agree with you, there is a serious problem when minimum and low wage earning needs topping up by gov help just to live off. The cost of living here is very much out of proportion to pay.

Earlybird - well maybe that says something about the type of people you associate with, people I have known both working and not working DO NOT de-fraud the system like you are saying. Possibly you need to find people with better morals.

This has been a huge revelation for me - had I not had kids and joined mumsnet I would continue to think of benefits as something unemployed people got, so when the budget for social welfare was announced I might have wondered why the hell it was so much money

I recently shocked a group of high earning family type mums with this - they had no idea - not their fault really why would they but the idea that all this money is going to mr and mrs slob is toxic and being used to prop up some shitty inequities

Just so we're clear- not having a job is also, as yet, not a crime.

This is what I mean

You say benefit and people thing single mum unemployed council estate income support blah blah

NOT

hospital porter 40 hours a week housing benefit working tax credit child tax credit child benefit

Framing benefit in terms of only people who are not in work skews perceptions

We really need to ask WTF is going on when working full time even above min wage will not be enough to let you live without topups

My goodness BaggyCoconut - calm down, and get off your sanctimonious high horse. I posted for the purposes of discussion. I don't endorse the behaviour, just simply saying it exists and is an extremely common way of 'working the system'.

Earlybord - I am just pointing out that that is not the way "most" people in reciept of benefits behave, as you implyed in your post. The majority of people who get gov help do so legally, they do not play the system.

I am not having a go at anyone receiving any benefit whatsoever

I am wanting it acknowledged that a HUGE chunk of the working population is receiving something or another because otherwise they will not be able to make ends meet

I guess the corollary is that in my opinion going axe happy on budgets isn't going to fix anything, we need to look at why the topups are necessary (and just to be clear they are necessary)

I suppose that I feel there is something wrong with a society/person who views that single mum unemployed council estate income support etc. as evil.

Which many on here (and out there) do.

So I would be asking why this has to be pointed out IYSWIM.

"We really need to ask WTF is going on when working full time even above min wage will not be enough to let you live without topups"

Well exactly.

and I am not making any comment or referring to people who officially are unemployed or are working cash in hand

This is rip off Britain. Or is it broken Britain? I can never remember!

Single mums make their bed and have to lie in it....

/lights blue touch paper and flies

Discuss.

I am not trying to start a debate about who deserves money or who the deserving and undeserving poor are, actually I really hate that sort of thing

Let's hope your DH is immortal then, eh Mme?

Well, given that he is a Christian...

Sorry chibi- don't let the thread be derailed by deliberately incendiary comments.

I will try not to rise to them

I really have no time for comments like single mums bring it on themselves, I mean it is asinine

But if you are talking in the earthly sense, he is definitely worth more dead than alive.

Why, chibi?

BaggyCoconut - I don't know about 'most' people. I only was reporting what i know about from personal experience.

My dh and I our both professionals, and there have been times during mat leaves when money has been a bit tight but because of our family income we can get by without topups

It is crazy that a salary combined or not of £45K for a family is needed to get by without topups - on paper that is loads, objectively speaking it's loads

families with 2 earners with a combined income of say £25K will have to get some kind of help to put a roof over their heads whether it is tax credits housing benefit or whatever

As soon as you bring housing into it it just falls apart

It really really is not a matter of well just work harder or well why don't you move

Compared to the cost of living in this country, where every bloody last thing is expensive, the fact that people who are working full time need their wages topped up is an absolute scandal. If wages were higher, people would not have to take from the state. No one has ever been able to explain to me why this is so. And don't get me started on house prices - the fact that a couple, whether or not they have children, should have to somehow raise £50,000 for a deposit to own their house is appalling. And again, politicians like our own dear Andrew George say time and again "something must be done", but nothing ever is. £50,000 FFS! I do love this country but more and more I am starting to think about emigrating.