Those shoebox appeals.

[manicmonday22]

Dd came home from school today with one of those shoebox appeal things. She wanted to fill up shoebox straight away. Explained that we had to buy new things to put in it. Don't mind doing that. However, I have now noticed that they are also asking for a minimun donation of £2.50 to cover costs etc.
Going to feel really mean not doing it as school has fired up children.

I won't boycott a charity just on the strength of feedback from random folk on the internet. I would like SP on here explaining themselves. MNHQ, can this be arranged?

If there is an issue with SP then it can affect the level of giving to all shoebox based charities, faith based or not, reputable or not, as someone else said further up the thread. If there is no issue, then a charity is being unfairly derided and children are being deprived.

It is a lose / lose situation and we need to resolve it.

It's not hearsay though- on the official samaritan's Purse site, Franklin Graham freely states that the shoeboxes are the first foot in the door for converting the children to his own hellfire brand of evangelical Christianity. He also talks about getting girls under ten to 'confess' to taking part in 'witchcraft' rituals (girls in rural Africa where they have their own customs and religions) and converting them. It makes my blood boil. Other charities just give out boxes, say 'enjoy, God bless' and leave it at that. I've asked for a Rotary shoebox this year.

It's upsetting to read this as making these boxes is a pleasure - don't mean to sound pathetic but thinking of the happiness they could bring to some kids... don't want to support hardliners, but looked on the site and doesn't sound so completely unreasonable (given that we know are Christian) - this was on their Q&A, is it a lie then?:

No. We do not put Christian literature into shoeboxes.

Is Christian literature sometimes distributed with the shoebox?
Yes. Whenever we are asked to provide Christian literature, we are always pleased to do so, free of charge. This usually takes the form of a booklet, The Greatest Gift of All, containing Bible stories and an explanation of the true meaning of Christmas. While local churches and Christian partners distributing the shoeboxes may offer a free copy of this booklet with shoeboxes, no child is obliged to take it. The booklet is given to a child with their shoebox, not inside it.

Do you require the children receiving shoeboxes to be Christians?
No. OCC is open to people from all walks of life, faith, race and ethnic background, at both giving and receiving ends. Shoeboxes are given to children who are victims of poverty, war, disease or natural disaster on the basis of need alone. At no time is a receiving child required to become a Christian, sign a pledge, pray a prayer or attend Bible classes; their shoebox is an unconditional gift from someone who cares about their plight.

Does anyone have a link for Rotary or other christmas boxes as can't see anything about it on Rotary website. Thanks

I haven't got time to read the whole thread, but I wanted to point out that if your box is going to Africa, I really wouldn't worry too much about the Christian message. This continent is one God-loving place.

In fact they would probably be more worried that there isn't some reference to Christianity.

Am going to make the boxes - just can't believe a kid wouldn't be thrilled to get one and that's the point of it.

The thing is this is just not a good way to help people.

Religious charities and groups like Rotary tend to do these shoebox appeals because it is popular with donors and because it gives people who want to take a one week mission trip to an orphanage something to do.

Professional aid organisations like Oxfam, Save the Children, Action Aid, Christian Aid, CAFOD etc...don't do this - it is not to do with secular vs religious it is just because it is not a good idea. (NK2d87aac7X114d622b941 Comic Relief don't do anything directly - they just fund others, but I doubt they fund anything like this).

strawberrycake After the Haiti earthquake and other disasters ports and depots get clogged up with donated clothes, water, food, medicines etc...which people have donated with the best of intentions. Food rots, urgent aid doesn't get through. Aid agencies and governments that are at the frontlines try to tell people not to send stuff, donate money. Its not arrogance, its trying to save lives.

Sure send shoeboxes if you want, its not the worst thing in the world, but you have to know that 1) you are supporting an organisation whose mission is not about humanitarianism but about saving souls 2)The money you spend on gifts could be better used by another charity 3) You are teaching your child lessons about aid ('send stuff') that just aren't useful.

If given all this you still want to do it, fine, we all do all kinds of irrational things. But schools should think twice before promoting them.

headlesschicken, the Q&A on their UK website confused me as well as it seemed reasonable and did not match up to some of the wilder claims I have read on here. This is why I think we need someone from the charity on here to explain it.

You might try reading the american based site then, because the UK one is toned down a lot. You can all call it disinformation all you like, but its an easily seen fact that the head man (frankling graham) is a money grubbing rabid evangelical fraudster that is very proud of the fact that they try to convert children with the boxes. And is anti-islamic and anti-semitic, amongst other things.

Give it, don't give it Just know who you're giving with.

I've copied and pasted this from the samaritans purse.org website

Distributing Shoe Boxes

Finally, your shoe box gets into the hands of a child!
? Lively, fun event for children
? Creative Gospel presentation by local churches and ministry partners, where appropriate
? Shoe boxes are given to children unconditionally
? Wherever appropriate, children are offered a copy of The Greatest Gift of All booklet in their own language by local churches and ministry partners.
? Soon after an OCC distribution event, the local churches and ministry partners may offer The Greatest Journey (TGJ) to the children participating in OCC in many of their communities. You can read more about this program here on our web site.

This exciting discipleship program (click here to read more) teaches children to become faithful followers of Jesus Christ.
? After the OCC distribution event, where appropriate, children who received shoe boxes are invited to participate in TGJ by the local churches and ministry partners.
? TGJ is a 12-lesson discipleship program, in the local language, from Samaritan?s Purse. It is utilized by the Operation Christmas Child project and is implemented by local churches and ministry partners.
? Children join with other children from their community to participate.
? Volunteers are trained to lead children through the lessons.
? Children who complete TGJ are awarded a personal certificate and many receive a copy of the New Testament in their local language.

If UK SP are operating in an ethical way, it is shameful to do this to a well intentioned UK charity that helps poor children. At the end of the day, children won't get presents because of it, and I think that's sad.

It would also be shameful if a supposedly Christian charity was wilfully misleading the public in the UK about the nature of their operations, and taking an overly evangelical approach with vulnerable children.

We need more information.

Yes I can choose to give or not give to SP, but at the moment I cannot make an informed choice.

Thanks for the warning about these. I followed the links and here's what I think ...

In theory, sending a box of hand-picked gifts to an individual child who has very little is a lovely thing to do. I don't agree that kids shouldn't have a bit of glittery frivolous crap just because they are lacking the basics. Obviously something like this can't be instead of trying to sort out clean water, basic medical care or whatever, but as an extra gift that will make a kid smile and which they will probably remember with joy for years to come, I think it's a great idea.

However, I can see that it's an incredibly inefficient way to give because of the costs of shipping all this stuff half-way around the world. What would be ideal is if there were organisations with local volunteers who could use donations to put together boxes locally. This would have the advantage of supporting the local economies of these places as well. However, that would mean that our DC's would miss out on the joy of choosing the gifts and learning about giving to those less fortunate, so perhaps boxes put together in the UK are best donated to local charities, DV and homeless shelters etc.

In any case, having read some of the stuff this Graham guy has said about other religions I want absolutely nothing to do with him or his "charity", regardless of whether these are "gifts with strings" or not. If I was going to send boxes abroad, I'd choose a charity such as Rotary instead.

I'm an atheist, but I generally have nothing against Christian charities. Christian Aid, for example, does fantastic work and manages to do so without spreading hatred of other religions.

It's not a question of OCC or nothing, it's OCC or any of a number of other charities without such an ugly hidden agenda.

My youngest charge is doing this in school. With OCC too. I have voiced my opinion on this to my boss. I really do not want to be involved in this.

Our school is doing OCC this year. I was shocked as its a Catholic school too.

I think its a good way to get dcs in the habit of donating but I don't think the small benefits outway the downside regarding the inefficiencies when compared to a cash donation to CAFOD etc. The same lesson could be learnt better by voluntary work or donation to a local cause such as a refuge/homeless shelter or children's hospice.

I probably would do one if it wasn't a right wing, anti Catholic, racist organisation but I can't fool myself into thinking that its for the good of the starving children in Africa rather than a self indulgent excercise.

Our samaritans purse leaflet explains that the money left over when the boxes a distributed goes towards the work that samaritans purse do, which appears to be purely about converting people to their own brand of 'Christianity' rather than actual useful aid programmes.

It's a practical way to get your kids to focus on the fact that some children have nothing.

Pain in the arse wrapping those boxes though ...

DD2's primary school have been doing this for years and as yet i have never made 1 even when dd1 (now 12) was there.

What really annoyed me was at the harvest festival they had a chap there from the shoebox appeal charity telling the kids all about it then he showed a film with deprived children receivng these boxes, as such dd2 (6) came home full of wanting to do it, i explained to her that there are children in this country who have nothing so we have given some money to a local charity to help children in social care who are awaiting adoption.

I know this isn't the same but y should it always be the uk who have to help these countries out and why quilt trip our kids into doing these things?

The problem with charities such as Oxfam is the overheads.

If you donate to any major charity (Oxfam, Save the Children etc) then anywhere up to 25% goes towards admin and advertising.

Personally I would rather a child gets some stuff to unwrap whatever time of the year it is. And yes, they need toothpaste all year. That doesn't mean they get it though does it? Surely that one tube of toothpaste for a few months is better than none at all.

If you send cash then the amount which gets through is not what you send. Once you've taken the overheads out and taken the inevitable corruption into the equation it often leaves very little.

I get v angry watching things like Comic Relief when they show stores full of mozzie nets. Within hours of filming they're empty and not because they've gone where they ought to. Because they've been flogged somewhere and lined someone's pocket.

How about adopting a British Squaddie?

NK2d87aac7X114d622b941 just read your full post which was very thoughtful. I think I can see where you are coming from, and strawberrycake.

When you give a shoebox you feel like you are giving to a child directly and bringing a smile to their face. It?s a nice feeling, better than giving money to some aid organisation that does something complicated and distant.

But I do think these charities exploit those feelings and manipulate people by dressing up a donation as a person-to-person gift. This stops people looking at the organisation, what it is for and how it is managed. So people don't say 'I wonder why an organisation that doesn't materially improve the life chances of it's beneficiaries pays it's part time CEO half a million dollars year' they say 'if I don't do this I'm denying a child in need'. That's some powerful emotional blackmail - particularly when the outreach to do it is through school kids.

The bottom line is unless you are really giving a gift to a person you know, you are actually donating resources to an organisation.They then decide how to use it, who to give it to, how to distribute, what strings to attach etc.. If you don't support their mission or don't trust that they are well managed and effective, you wouldnt give money to them. But somehow because it's a gift tied up with wrapping paper such thoughts appear heartless.

We are all such savvy shoppers for insurance, clothes, food etc.. But when it comes to charity we are being encouraged not to ask too many questions. But what pulls most at the heartstrings isn't necessarily what's best. For example lots of charities (particularly missionary ones) run 'orphanages' - but most of the children in them aren't orphans, but have parents who can't afford to look after them for a time. It is much more expensive to institutionalise a child than to help them to stay at home. But it is much easier to fundraise for 'orphans' than for social workers, income support, training ....let alone advocating for womens rights, against corruption, for legal reforms etc...

3years in a row, my dc's school has done samaritans purse. 3 years i have emailed them links and suggested they find a different scheme to do. every year they say thanks for that information and we'll look into it for next year. they've just handed this years leaflets out and guess what, it's samaritans purse again.

buttonmoon78 overheads costs are a red herring when it comes to choosing charities.
www.philanthropyaction.com/nc/the_worst_and_best_way_to_pick_a_charity_this_year

Think about how you choose restaurants..you never say oh this one is great it has such low overheads. Even cheap restaurants have overheads, they have to pay staff, rent thats how they get the food on your plate.

Same with charities - they don't work like a Western Union money transfer. They are organisations. You have to assess them by their impacts. That's why good charities commission and publish independent evaluations of their work.

I don't know about whether all the children that get (for example) toothpaste from OCC need it:

• maybe some have never seen it before and don't know what to do with it
• maybe some have enough toothpaste already
• maybe some can't afford toothpaste but it is in the shops
• maybe some would rather have something else
• maybe some sell their toothpaste

Before an organisation starts shipping tootpaste hundreds of miles they ought to ask these questions. OCC doesn't ask these questions and it doesn't evaluate. 100% of the toothpaste gets through, but what % of it makes a difference? Nobody knows. Because its not really about the toothpaste, or the children's dental health at all.

A real charity that has spotted a dental health problem, tries to work out why children are suffering tooth decay (is it lack of awareness, affordability of toothpaste, the healthcare system etc..) what are the local healthcare organisations, businesses, government agencies they can work with to help fix it. All this costs money (some of it administration costs...) but has a better chance of solving problems.

Here is a really good tool for assessing charities.