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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Those shoebox appeals.

97 replies

manicmonday22 · 22/10/2010 18:53

Dd came home from school today with one of those shoebox appeal things. She wanted to fill up shoebox straight away. Explained that we had to buy new things to put in it. Don't mind doing that. However, I have now noticed that they are also asking for a minimun donation of £2.50 to cover costs etc.
Going to feel really mean not doing it as school has fired up children.

OP posts:
ravenAK · 22/10/2010 22:02

A cash donation would be rather more efficient than shipping a box of assorted toys & toiletries long distance.

Even without the unpalatable associations with fundamentalist loons.

Sorry - it's one of those things that sounds like a nice idea but really doesn't stand up.

ravenAK · 22/10/2010 22:04

...but I'd agree it could work if a) local & b) secular. Still better to donate money though.

zipzap · 22/10/2010 22:12

Fibilou - surely that's the point though? There are lots of different schemes that operate shoebox type appeals.

Some of them - like the Rotarian one - give the boxes out to children who don't have anything, no strings attached. Fantastic and great, have no issues with it at all. Don't even have any qualms about them saying 'Happy Christmas these boxes are from Christians in the UK' as they hand them out if they are from a Christian based charity (altho' I am guessing that if they are from the Rotarian one they would be saying 'happy christmas these boxes are from the Rotary scheme in the UK as I seem to remember they were happy for people to be of whatever religion they believed in rather than being just christian)

Others, like Operation Christmas Child, give the boxes out to children who don't have anything but at the same time will impose conditions on the recipients of the box - such as having to listen to long lectures on christianity and have to sign up to say that they will convert if they are not christian, whilst the head of the operation preaches religious intolerance in the US...

Those are the ones that I don't agree with - if they were being truly christian then they would just hand them over with a smile and say Happy Christmas. No strings attached.

And to say that if you don't give a shoebox to the OCC appeal means that a deserving child misses out - is hokum too. If you make up a box and give it to a charity (other than OCC) to give to a child then a child will get a box - it just means that OCC won't be able to claim they gave out as many boxes. And the more boxes the genuine schemes - like the Rotary one - can give out, the better... Because there will be fewer boxes being given out as rewards by missionaries determined to convert as many people as possible and who are just using this as a tool rather than giving it as a genuine christmas gift.

Of course if you don't make up a box at all then a child will miss out - but it's all a question of finding a good charity to deliver it!

Balletpink · 22/10/2010 22:14

Re cash donations v shoeboxes - at least (presumably) nobody but kids would want shoeboxes crammed with all sorts of little bits that are individually worthless in monetary terms? At least there is better chance of kids directly benefitting from actually receiving the gifts.

The personal touch involved is priceless as opposed to a job lot of, say, black socks or identical teddies etc. It's the thought and the individuality that makes the shoeboxes special IMO. Being treated as a human (and a child at that) than just a charity project. Getting given something that is nothing to do with the daily grind of living in poverty. Also, children helping choose what goes in the shoeboxes have the opportunity to imagine how life might be where your only gift per year is a shoebox of tiny bits from a stranger.

Cash donations sadly has the potential to be misused and abused Sad

zipzap · 22/10/2010 22:15

oops... everybody else said it much more succinctly whilst I was typing out my thesis post Blush

SolidButShamblingUndeadBrass · 22/10/2010 22:17

Operation Christmas Child is a scam, basically. Their lovely fluffywuffy leaflets don;t mention that it's run by a rightwing racist evangelical organisation that's been investigated at least once for dodgy accounting. Give to charity at Christmas by all means but make the extra effort to ensure that the charity you are giving to is a worthwhile one.

Hiyamaya · 23/10/2010 11:18

The thing is, putting aside the evangelical aspect since there are also some secular charities that run these shoe box drives, sending boxed up gifts of cheap presents is just a bad way of giving aid.

Normally when you donate to a charity you hope that they take your money and use it to meet people's needs, or even better help them solve problems (like corruption, lack of education, lack of economic opportunity, unfair trade rules etc..) that are standing in their way.

Good organisations work with local people, try to understand what outside help they need, and then use their resources in the most cost efficient way (so they can help more people).

The shoe box thing seems like a nice gesture, but it falls down on so many counts:

  • Is what children from Kyrgyzstan to Liberia most need from us a once a year delivery of toys, toothpaste, sweets etc...
  • If it is (and this seems a bit odd - why would they only need toothpaste once a year..) then is the most cost effective way to get it to them to send the products from overseas (could they not be bought locally, helping to create local jobs. Of if you can't buy these products locally why not - maybe there isn't a local culture of toothpaste use, maybe they use something else, maybe what's needed is dental education, maybe there isn't a culture of teddy bears etc....)
  • If the best thing is really, really to donate these goods by shipping them from the UK, then is the best way to do it to buy them at retail price and then package them with a lot of cardboard, paper and air, so that shipping costs and logistics are more expensive.

If you look at your donation say you give £2.50 in cash and spend £10 on contents - could this £14.50 buy more toothpaste, sweets, toys etc..for more children if bought locally and in bulk. Or might it even be used to buy something else if you asked the children, their parents and the organisations working with them what they would spend it on.

I know this seems like a heartless way to look at a gift but this is how serious aid agencies think about how to use donations in the best way to help people in need. And that is why Oxfam, Christian Aid, CAFOD, Save the Children Fund, Action Aid etc... none of them waste their time and your money on xmas boxes.

Or you could argue that it is the gift part itself that is most important. But I think this is for the giver rather than the receiver (in some cultures, even where they are Christian they won't have the whole individual presents/shiny wrapping thing as part of their tradition). Just how meaningful is a 'gift' from someone you don't know/know nothing about/knows nothing about you/will never intervene in any other way?

I know parents and schools do this with the best intentions and because it seems like a fun and direct way to help people and get kids involved in thinking and helping others.

But I think it just teaches kids such bad messages about aid that it is not worth it on any front: e.g. that children in poor countries have 'nothing' (no parents, no community,no politics, no culture worth worrying about), they are passive recipients - whatever we send them is good and you can send the same thing to poor children everywhere, you can turn off your critical thinking when it comes to charity 'good intentions are enough'.

(sorry for the essay)

SolidButShamblingUndeadBrass · 23/10/2010 12:34

Also, if you really want to give little gift items, why not look at local homeless charities or women's refuges - toiletries, socks, little toys or whatever are probably going to be much appreciated and you're not wasting time and money on air frieght.

Bathsheba · 23/10/2010 13:30

We o it. We are Christians but I don't like "in your face" evangelism. One of the girls from our church went with the organisation 2 years ago to distibute the boxes and she said there was nothing at all pressurising or offensive - just a little slip in the boxes with info about Christians.

No pressure, no co-ercion and certainly nothing the say that families must converty because they get one.

Like Pumpkin says above, it gives something to children who have nothing...

The £2.50 is to cover the logistics of physically getting the box to where it needs to be- a lot less than postage would cost. It funds the flights and the lorries that take the boxes to where they are needed

Porcelain · 23/10/2010 13:48

Ethics aside, I'd rather donate to Oxfam so needy kids get stuff like clean water, healthcare or the means to make a living than send a box of plastic tat. If you want you kids to understand you could replace a xmas present with an Oxfam unwrapped present and explain what it means.

UnquietDad · 23/10/2010 13:50

There are charities you can give to who do shoeboxes without the unnecessary godding. Aren't Oxfam one?

Eve4Walle · 23/10/2010 14:01

At DDs school, they do the Rotary club appeal, not linked to religion at all.

We had fun choosing the gifts in the Pound shop yesterday - DD is 7 and was doing one for a girl her age, so we got a doll, some gloves, a pencils and a pencil case, a pretty flannel and a bar of soap, a toothbrush, socks and some hair bobbles.

Lf36 · 23/10/2010 14:18

I believe that people have to right to give to whichever charity they choose. Those of you who scoff at people who don't want to give to a religious charity - who do you think you are? These people have a right to find a charity that is fitting for their beliefs, even is that is different from your own. They are on this site and writing on here because they do want to do something. Alternatives to the Samaritan's Purse fund are covered in an article here: www.humanism.org.uk/humanism/humanism-today/humanists-doing/charities/samaritans-purse

I for one, am going with the Romanian Link charity as I personally want what I give to be given without any strings attached for the family receiving the shoebox.

ravenAK · 23/10/2010 14:34

Of course they do Lf36.

But as Himalaya so cogently points out, if you're going to spend £1/£10/£100 on charity, it's vanishingly unlikely that shipping toys etc is the best use of that cash.

I'd much much rather give my donation to a reputable organisation who will then spend it on something the beneficiary actually wants or needs.

How do I/my children lose by doing it this way? Well, we miss out on a feel-good potter round Poundland. I think we can pass that up.

(& where's the Poundland tat originated in the first place, once you come to think of it...? Hmmm.)

Hiyamaya · 23/10/2010 14:57

Thanks Solidbutshamblingundeadbrass, to be fair I don't think they actually airfreight them.

Lf36 of course you have the right to donate to whoever you like - but the point is that humanitarian aid isn't about fulfilling our rights, it's about donating resources to help protect and fulfil the rights of others.

Inquietdad - no Oxfam don't do this AFAIK they don't think it's a good way to give aid.

Has anyone taken this up with their school and what was the outcome?

MollieO · 23/10/2010 15:10

I have no problem supporting a Christian charity and doing a shoebox appeal. I do have a big problem with supporting a Christian charity that discriminates as to who receives their boxes. Operation Christmas Child is run by Samaritan's Purse. A simple google will reveal all in the founder's own words.

I complained last year and refused to allow ds to do one. This year the school has changed to charity.

Lf36 · 23/10/2010 15:10

ravenAK - I think you are right that there is a better use of £10+, but the shoebox has an appeal as it can involve young children in the physical act of giving. It is hard to explain to a 3 year old that we are going to buy, say a desk and a chair for a child in a poor country when they can't see it or help in giving it. When children get older then I do think they are better able to understand schemes such as Oxfam's Unwrapped.

As for buying things that are not meaningful - the list of items to send such as pencils, pens, paper, nail cutters, soap, flannels, calculators, socks, hats, gloves, toiletries, screwdrives, tapemeasures (you get the idea) don't sound as completely useless as say a box packed full of plastic toys or sweets from Poundland. These are on the list of items that Link Romania ask for, and are gifts for the whole family not just the children.

RunawayPumpkin · 23/10/2010 15:18

I hardly think it is going to make a child a bible basher just because someone sent them so crayons and toothpaste!

Bloody hell if indoctrinating people was that easy Bin Larden would have picked up on it long ago

ravenAK · 23/10/2010 15:24

Oh I can definitely see the appeal Lf36! My dc would enjoy doing it.

I just don't think it's a great lesson for them, for all the reasons given in Hiyamaya's post.

The Link Romania list does sound better than most.

ohdeargreeneyedmonster · 23/10/2010 15:38

Anyone got an opinion on the trusselltrust one?

Lf36 · 23/10/2010 15:40

RunawayPumpkin - I am not sure about you, but personally I would not want anything that I give to have strings attached. That means I would not want the family/child receiving the shoebox to have to do anything, read anything or attend anything in order to receive the gift.

Although it may seem petty to you, the evangelical US organisation that runs Operation Shoebox has been known to include alongside the shoeboxes given out, leaflets that include a "sinner's prayer" of conversion with their fundamentalist message. So, I am not concerned about making a child "bible basher", just that I would rather not have my gift support this cause.

earthworm · 23/10/2010 15:43

We did these boxes for years until I did a bit of research and found out that Samaritan's Purse follows a particularly toxic brand of Christianity.

If you don't have time to do anything else, look at their website and read what the Rev Franklin has to say. I defy anyone to do so and still think that donating via their organisation is a good thing.

As many have already said, why not give to a more reputable charity, or Christian Aid if the religious affiliation of the charity is important to you (CA do a great job wherever there is need, without strings attached)?

I spoke to DC's school about this and, after doing their own research, they have agreed to support a different charity next year.

Hiyamaya · 23/10/2010 16:09

Lf36, RavenAK - yes I definately see the appeal.

But I think that the form in which aid should be given should be determined by what's best for the receiver, not what's best for the giver.

I think perhaps poverty and injustice in lands far away may just be too much to expect a three year old to understand at any level. And certainly a three year olds level of understanding shouldn't drive humanitarian aid.

Maybe like taxes, politics, the finer details of sex, climate change etc.....poverty and injustice around the world is just something they should learn about when they are a bit older?

TondelayooohSchwarlock · 23/10/2010 16:18

I agree with Raven AK. The boxes allow the beneficiary to feel good about themselves but it really isn't the best use of resources. What development charities NEED is cold hard cash. Save your time and give them cash straight away, gift-aided.

If you want your kids to be involved in the act of giving, then get them to clear a space in their rooms by donating their unused toys to a good charity shop.

SolidButShamblingUndeadBrass · 23/10/2010 17:49

I complained in writing to DS school last year. ANd they took no fucking notice whatsoever. THis year I am going to ask if I can put up a poster offering an alternative giving method for those parents who 'are aware that there are serious concerns and objections to this charity...'