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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Those shoebox appeals.

97 replies

manicmonday22 · 22/10/2010 18:53

Dd came home from school today with one of those shoebox appeal things. She wanted to fill up shoebox straight away. Explained that we had to buy new things to put in it. Don't mind doing that. However, I have now noticed that they are also asking for a minimun donation of £2.50 to cover costs etc.
Going to feel really mean not doing it as school has fired up children.

OP posts:
pranma · 23/10/2010 17:54

We do shoe boxes every year and to me the important thing is the recipients not the donor organisation.Operation Christmas Child was started by one woman who later linked up with samaritan's Purse to reach more children.Its all very well being snippety snoppety about evangelism etc but what really matters is the children.

Bunbaker · 23/10/2010 17:57

"Oh here we go again

I really do not get the point of all the people who get so worked up with the "we won't do it cause it mentions God" rubbish.

I am C of E I do not believe in Allah (but respect the rights of others to if that is what makes them happy) but if my child had nothing I would welcome a shoebox of stuff being sent to them even if it came with a copy of the Koran stuck in it."

I totally agree. Does it really matter, or is it an excuse not to do it because you don't want to. I get fed up with religion haters. What's wrong with live and let live. I don't really care whether they are evangalistic if it means that a child, who might normally get nothinbg, gets something.

ravenAK · 23/10/2010 18:38

Have a look here for why it matters.

pursestrings.ca/shoebox.htm

The choices aren't restricted to a child getting a shoebox of whatever someone the other side of the world thinks they should have, with a piece of bumf denigrating their own & their parents' beliefs, or 'nothing'.

There are plenty of respectable charities you can give to who don't conduct themselves like this. Some of them are religious.

Lf36 · 23/10/2010 19:48

ravenAK A great link. Thanks for that.

bensonbutnohedges · 23/10/2010 20:16

My DH has been to Kosova several times to give out shoeboxes to children in schools and gipsy camps. It was a Christian organisation,but there were no strings attached to receiving the boxes.
If it worries you that much there are plenty of appeals from local radio stations for children in this country you can give to. I think it is good for children to know that there are others less fortunate.
I organised shoebox appeals at school several times and didn't have any complaints. I assumed that those who didn't want to give boxes didn't do it.

ravenAK · 23/10/2010 20:34

I'd like to think that parents & children were aware of the implications, though, before deciding to give of their time & money.

If, like your dh, I were involved with a charity delivering boxes in a non-proselytising manner, I'd be really bothered by this sort of thing bringing our work into disrepute.

pursestrings.ca/strings.htm.

The colleague who organised OCC appeals at my school had no idea of the charity's tactics, & neither did most of the students/parents.

Nor did I, until someone better informed directed me to a similar link. These people are really very dodgy indeed!

amnon · 23/10/2010 22:22

bubbleOseven has accused the critics of Operation Christmas Child of disinformation.

So to clear up any confusion, I suggest reading what Rev. Franklin Graham (OCC's spritual leader) himself says about this enterprise. www.samaritanspurse.org/index.php/Newsletter/october_09/. Absolutely damning!

PerpetuallyAnnoyedByHeadlice · 23/10/2010 22:59

Our church did these OCC boxes, first cos it seemed like a nice idea for the kids to do, then out of habit for several years, then we wised up to all the bad publicity and the reasons behind it

we now give to the salvation army toy appeal - and its not just toys actually, its socks, hankies, toiletries, sweets for use in their homeless hostels and to give to elderly housebound people who have no friends or family to spend xmas with

Hiyamaya · 23/10/2010 23:52

For anyone who is interested in what makes good aid, and how as a donor you can tell what is worth supporting the ' good intentions are not enough' blog is excellent. goodintents.org/category/core-posts

She doesn't talk about shoebox gifts in particular but she does explain why gifts in kind (i.e. Shipping stuff we think people might need) is usually not the best idea.

She also has a very good thought experiment which could even be used with children in discussing what charity projects to support. Http://goodintents.org/aid-recipient-concerns/how-to-determine-if-an-aid-project-is-a-good-idea

Basically she says to reverse tge roles and imagine if we were the ones receiving aid, is this how we would want it. Here is my go at it:

Think about social problems in the UK - the most deprived areas: failing schools, families without work for generations, gangs, old people afraid of crime, children living in relative poverty, in care, neglected etc...

Now imagine a group of young well intentioned visitors from China. They don't speak English, they know nothing of our political systems or public services, and they have no training in social work or anything else, but they have heard of our problems and would genuinely like to help and to gently spread the word about Chinese communism.

They arrive with boxes for our poor hopeless children, wrapped in Chinese paper with images we don't understand. Inside are products that they think might be useful to poor families - clothes (but they are slightly odd, not like the clothes people buy here), wierd Chinese foods, toys that we've never seen before, some items that are completely incomprehensible, some that you can get in 3for 2 at Morrison's.... Well it's the thought that counts.

They seem well connected, their economy is doing much better than ours, they might come back and invest here, or buy up our government debt. Best be polite. Anyway it would be rude to refuse a well meant gift when people have come so far.

So the visitors come, they bring their gifts, they hug our hoodies and take photos with our babies. They hand out copies of Mao's little red book. They do nothing to help address or even try to understand the problems of our education system, economy, welfare system, health service. Apparently they have a busy schedule to deliver the same packages all over the poor
neighboorhoods of Europe and the US.

A local charity wonders if if it could have made better use of all the money spent on the gifts, the airfares and the hotels for the visitors. But no one asked them.

The visitors return home to China and tell their friends and colleagues of the humbling and life changing experience they had in the UK, and of how grateful the people were. Inspired they vow to come back next year.

NK2d87aac7X114d622b941 · 31/10/2010 22:50

Ok but if you take the Christianity out of the equation, what you are saying can also be applied to Comic Relief and many other charities - because they too are going into countries and often not addressing the bigger economic / national problems etc but looking at the lives of individuals. And I can only assume that they do sometimes get it wrong, however I would also guess that sometimes it is a ray of sunshine in the lives of an individual - to know that someone, somewhere, is thinking of them - even just in providing inapropriate western branded merchandise (and despite your very well argued thought experiment - I think kids are savy and often this is exactly what they would like as a gift!). And lest we forget we are not talking about Great Britain, we are talking about children who often have NOTHING. Not children living under the poverty line in a wealthy nation, but children like those we used to see in the orphanages in Romania, or children in Africa who do have enough paper and pens in their schools, let alone toys of their own (and I know I know, toys are not bread and butter - but they meant alot to me and to my kids too).

So that is why I think OCC is a great charity. Moreover, like Comic Relief, it raises awareness. For example only yesterday I explained about the shoeboxes to my 4yr old boy. I wasn't sure he'd understood, but this morning he came downstairs and asked my husband if he could send his spiderman toy in the box. This has been a far more effective lesson about poverty / charity than any vague conversation we have had previously - he's just figured out that he can have an impact. And who knows, perhaps this will instil in him a wish to help people in more effective (maybe even more useful monotary ways when he's older :P). And don't get me wrong, I'm not going to be sitting around smugly thinking what a wonderful mother I am and what a kind son I have - I know it's a drop in the ocean. But it's a good way for kids to learn - and what's the alternative - to just not do it??

Finally I should say I really don't think charities like OCC are the answer to all problems, they are a tiny part of a very big picture. But that's kind of the point for me, I don't have a clue where any of my monotary donations go. However this is that little bit extra you can do at Christmas, and for almost no sacrifice at all, make some little child smile. I must say I kind of hope it gets a little further afield than Ireland - that's hilarious!:)

Rachel

P.s sorry to pull your email apart Hiyamaya, you did make a good point very well :)

NordicPrincess · 01/11/2010 12:14

so those of you who do send shoe boxes, what do u put in them?

strawberrycake · 01/11/2010 13:33

I personally know lots of related/ unrelated poor families in Ukraine/ Russia. I wish they got things like this!

We stuff laundry bags and send them over.

strawberrycake · 01/11/2010 13:41

Sorry, but my own family a few years ago was on the receiving end of clothes/ presents/ a seaside holiday for the kids after the floods in Ukraine.

EVERYTHING was appreciated and everything found a good home somewhere. IF you have fuck all and you property is flooded you aren't fussed my 'weird food' or odd clothes or cheap food.

My school were I work also send old clothing and I can assure you it was appreciated.

For fucks sake you must have your head in the clouds if you think that people with next to nothing are fussy about getting 'weird' stuff. It's EXCITING for the kids. Some people need a reality check. ANY help is good. Go live there, talk to people there. What's so fucking wrong with putting a smile on a child's face at Christmas rather than being cold and rational and making sure your donation MUST be 'useful' or not exist at all.

For some reason this has REALLY annoyed me. I would not normally swear as I type but it's so fucking arrogant to decide that others don't want things.

strawberrycake · 01/11/2010 13:42

Not the same project either but my sisters have received gifts at christmas from the USA/ Germany. It's lovely, it doesn't mean they are now pentecostal now like the churchs were.

strawberrycake · 01/11/2010 13:45

If were allowed on here I'd feel like saying look I'll send whatever you want to give to families that will either need/ want it or pass it on to others who will.

I'd pay the van myself (it's £1 a kg). I'm sending half a primark over myself next week plus a good sprinkling of pound shop thrown in.

nannynobnobs · 01/11/2010 13:53

DD1's school have chosen to go with bloody Samaritan's Purse this year :(
I emailed the Head over half term about my concerns, and just got this reply.
Dear XX,
I have noted your comments.
Regards,
Head.
Well, that made an impact didn't it! He is normally such a lovely open friendly man, I'm not impressed.

smallpenguin · 02/11/2010 10:31

I know some people who do a lot of work with Operation Christmas Child and it isn't true that children have to go to Bible classes in order to get a shoebox and it isn't true that their families have to renounce any other faith that they might have in order to receive a shoebox.
The giving of the boxes is unconditional - it's just to make a child happy. Permission is obtained to give out the boxes from those in charge of the country they're in and there is no way that OCC would jeopardise this.
It is a Christian organisation, and I can understand that if you don't like this then you might want to choose another charity instead, but do check it out before you assume that the rumours are true.
I agree that if a charity offered a treat to a child on the condition that they change their faith, then that would be shocking and unacceptable. Operation Christmas Child don't do this.

bundlebelly · 02/11/2010 10:38

I think its fantastic idea and have a really lovely time with dd choosing things to go in the box. We are on a budget, but consider this a priority, some of these children have NOTHING. As a teacher I found it very difficult when the rep came round and told us that an orphanage was really pleased with their box. Only to discover that there was a box for EACH child! Not one to share. There joy was amazing and some didn't even want to open the boxes as they hadn't had a present before. Making me cry again now. . blooming hormones! Anyway, we have the luxury to be negative about these schemes if we want, the children don't. My dd always puts something of her own in there too, and really learns from the experience.

Please join in if there is one near you, it is really worthwhile.

bundlebelly · 02/11/2010 10:39

sorry, spelling crap. Meant 'their' joy of course. I am a teacher really, just pap brain at mo.

bundlebelly · 02/11/2010 10:44

nordic
We put in colouring pencils, sharpener, rubber, sketch pad, wash stuff, toothpaste, soap, flannel, toothpaste, little mirror, plastic bracelets, age appropriate toys, warm socks, etc etc. I think anything ok as long as not toy guns, knives etc, no liquids allowed, or food.

Ragwort · 02/11/2010 10:49

Do those of you who are so anti-Christianity do anything special on 25th December or is it just 'another day' for you? I would have a lot more sympathy for such views if people didn't want to 'pick and mix' how they celebrate at this time of year.

My DS loves preparing a shoebox, yes, there probably are better ways of distributing money which we do as well, but this is a really fun way for a child to understand what it is like to have nothing at Christmas. Smile

Longstocking2 · 02/11/2010 10:55

ds's cubs group had a bring and buy/cake sale and raised the whole postage and some extra for filling the boxes.

I used to feel ambivalent about the evangelising side of Operation xmas child. But you don't get many Secular Associations of Agnostics organising these boxes (I have sympathy for both extremes!) so tend to think - I bet these kids are glad of these little gifts.

I agree strongly that it is really good that kids learn to give to others if possible. And this is a tangible thing that connects to their own imaginations and sense of excitement about xmas.

But we are really lucky that his cub group organises the decoration of the boxes and they fill them up in one of their sessions. We just need to bring things to add. Much easier, imo, than trying to do a whole box from scratch!

Acinonyx · 02/11/2010 11:11

nanny - our school also does The Purse. I've contacted the rotary club to see if there is a near enough pick-up point for one of their boxes.

boiledegg1 · 02/11/2010 11:16

If there is a lot of disinformation about OCC on here, can we invite a spokesperson in for a webchat?

Basically I agree with what pumpkin said near the start of the thread

kreecherlivesupstairs · 02/11/2010 11:25

I was so concernd about SP having read a lot on here last year that I managed to stop DD's sending boxes to them. This year they are supporting the refugee hostel and mountain children. The latter sounds odd, but her school was in Switzerland.