To be upset about yet another friend having a second, third baby when I can't

[pigletmania]

I know that I may be vvvvu as we already have a beutiful little girl, but yet another of my friends has announced that they are expceting baby number 2 when we are still struggling to concieve. We have been ttc for 1.5 years, and had a m/c at Christmas of last year which made us very . I just feel upset and angry that my body is letting me down badly. Everytime a pregnancy is announced in the news or with friends I feel upset and mildly hysterical, then get over it and forget about it until the next one is announced.

Thanks so much everyone. I can cope with first children, second ones just throw me over the edge. I might go to the Dr soon and see about tests and clomid.

I read this article a while ago, apparently it can be caused by erratic thyroid function - go and see your doc now and have some tests - nothing to lose.

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/may/07/secondary-infertility-increasing

Sympathies from me too. Took nearly a year and a half to get pg with dd2 and I know it's not that long but it felt like frickin forever. One month 10 people I knew announced their pregnancies, it just felt like it was happening to everyone but me...dd2 now 3 months and wonderful. Hope it happens for you soon.

When we planned to start a family we went away for our 4th wedding anniversary had unprotected sex for the first time ever and 9 months later there was DS1.
When we decided a year later to have another child it took over 2 years to fall pregnant, resulting in a 4 year gap between our children not the 2 years planned

I'm very sympathetic and understand how you feel but it isn't their fault that you are having these problems. When I was pg with my first I was completely ignored by someone that I'd considered to be a good friend for the same reason. It felt horrible :(

I really hope that it happens soon for you

I've been there ... 3 years of trying after getting pregnant with DS immediately and nothing. For a while I could barely speak to my friends who seemed to be getting pregnant with their seconds as easily as catching a bus.

I'm pretty resigned to just one now. Of course there are lots of advantages to be grateful for - I'm not still bogged down with nappies and sleepless nights and it's far easier doing trips/outings with one that it would be difficult/expensive to do with two. Plus, I see the kids of some of my friends constantly bickering & fighting which I think must be really tiring to live with day in day out. I didn't get on well with my sister when we were growing up & there's no guarantee kids will be perfect playmates.

It's so hard to come to terms with and I still get the 'Want Baby' madness, but we have a good family dynamic now; DS gets plenty of play time with mum/dad and his friends (which is what he wants - HE doesn't miss a sibling at all) and DH & I have plenty of time/energy for each other too at the end of the day.

Seeing other people successfully pregnant while you're still struggling is tough, I have to say. I'm still stuck on No.1 but having had problems, I can empathise with secondary infertility and can imagine it can still be very painful even if you have 1 child already.

It is tough because the 80% of people out there who have no problems just assume it's straightforward and that pregnancy, babies, conception is all a wonderful joyful thing. Infertility, miscarriage etc are thing most people don't like to talk about or recognise.

I had an MMC in August (after trying for nearly a year) and dealing with other's pregnancies is one of the hardest things. A woman at work just had a baby and we were all sent photos - I just deleted the e-mail. Then yesterday, I went to see my GP who had handled my MC and noticed that she was actually 6 months pregnant. I hadn't seen her since the MC, two months ago, but I just felt like the biggest idiot in the world that I had been sitting there crying and in bits over the MC while she was sitting there, smugly 4 months pregnant. I felt so stupid and such a failure. I'm sure she wasn't smug about it(!) obviously but in my mind it just underlined my disastrous fertility...

Yanbu. Good luck I hope it happens soon

Oh no I would never avoid a friend that was pg, this friend was naturally avoided as she lives far and I don't drive. We were due to meet up in the summer but she had to cancel, she has this month had a little boy. I would never show anyone, just keep it inside. I ened up crying last night about it all.

Sex is becoming like a chore, and i find myself behaving vvvvvvu towards my dh when we refuses due to him not being well, or tired busy or simply just that I am being too nagging and its put him off.

Piglet,

Just wondered if you'd come across this book? I found it a complete godsend when experiencing primary infertility, as it has a lot of detail and empathy about what feelings are usual in this situation (I was so overwhelmingly jealous I could barely speak to a father-to-be colleague) and techniques for dealing with them.

Thanks birdyperson I will order it, love Amazon they are so good for books.

you are not 'wrong' to feel as you do - it is very emotional but I do hope you dont let these people know what you are thinking - it is not their fault.

Yanbu. I feel the same :( we have been trying for a year nearly (Mirena removed last Nov) - and our DD is 5 - I didnt want a gap this big but my DP was dragging his feet about trying

Piglet, YANBU. We have been TTC DC2 for a year now and will go to the doctors soon. It feels like everyone I know is having babies or is pregnant.

Thank you, also, for this thread. It's good to know I'm not the only one. Because of the private nature of this issue, it's so easy to feel like that.

Last week, a friend told me she was happy talking to me about her pregnancy, even though I was TTC, because, unlike another friend who had a MC, I wasn't being 'silly' about it. Apparently, I obviously didn't care too much about whether DS was an only child and so I don't make her feel bad!

I don't want her to feel bad and I suppose it's my fault for not talking more about my feelings, but FFS!

I trying to keep my feelings private and not let it affect me until another friend announced her pg yesterday, then I just spilled out onto this therad. Of course I would never let anyone know what my true feeling were, just plaster a smile on my face and try and be upbeat about it, and happy for them.

It's awful, feel for anyone going through it.

When I went to see the doctor about ttc for over a year with no success and he sent me off for blood tests he wrote on the form they were for secondary infertility and it really upset me, my first (and at that time only) pregnancy had ended in mc. I do hate the term 'secondary' it feels like it's belittling what you're going through. Surely infertility is infertility? What if you have two DC then infertility, is that tertiary infertility?

Of course I'm prepared to admit I'm being irrational about that as I often am.

piglet, YANBU imo!

Being infertile for a long or short time can make anyone feel deeply irrational.

It took me nearly three years to conceive ds (9) and then nearly 7 yrs to conceive dd (2).

This advice is based on what I went through and what I've learned from other people.

Go for full medical fertility checks asap, both of you.
Give yourself a massive break and don't beat yourself up at all (if you can stop yourself)
Do everything you can to improve your health and fitness etc within reason, you'll feel better too psychologically
Cherish the one you've got when you can
Grieve fully for the one you lost when you're ready (it took me years to get over my mc)
Try alternative things if you can - massage, relaxation techniques etc
Try banning sex for periods of time so you can get close physically again. Few things can kill your sex life like infertility can.

My ds was conceived when we were ordered (by my masssage therapist) to stop trying for 3 months and to get close to each other again.

Try aromatherapy if you can - I hear so often that it's tension and stress that seems to be the enemy of fertility. Trying to get pg is the enemy of fertility somehow too isn't it? Too much pressure!

You can also think, like I do now, that if I hadn't had to wait this long long time for my dd then I would never have had her and she is the most preposterously adorable thing I've ever seen since my ds!

A philosophy which helps you accept things as they are means you can relax and let life happen at a pace that's right. Life is better when we don't try to arrange everything. Some people believe that things happen for a reason, I know it sounds glib and no one wishes us to suffer. BUT I know this was the road I had to go down to have these lovely children. I nearly gave up so many times. BUt then when we'd accepted we'd only have our adorable ds and I tried one last bit of fertility treatment (only clomid for 6 months) I got pg.

I also think that some of us just can't get pg til we've recovered deeply from our mcs.

Fertility is extremely mysterious. That's why you should not feel pessimisstic particularly as you are young and have another child!

Positive thinking, being kind to yourself, doing anything that reduces the pressure, grieving for your lost pg., cherishing your dd (as I'm sure you do).

It took a long time before I could accept pg news with a philosophical attitude. And I almost believe that I couldn't get pg until I'd really accepted that I probably wouldn't! One day we'll know more about the power of the mind over fertility. It is so painful a process.

Take care and all the best!

hi piglet

i understand how you must be feeling as i am there too i got pregnant after 10 months trying and had DD some issues in pregnancy but nothing major and she was fine, beautiful and is a wonderful little girl we then decided to TTC after we got married and DD waz about 18 months or so then. i had a coil in so had it taken out in october 2007. we began TTC straight away and i stupidly assumed i would catch straight away but nope...it has been 3 years and 6 Mcs (7 overall). no DC3 and alot of health problems later and we are still waiting impatiently for our baby...i have underactive thyroid, antiphospholipid syndrome, i am overweight (due to the thyroid and cakes ) and i have now been told by my GP that i have a high likelyhood of coeliac disease (can cause infertility and MCs) so things dont appear to be in my favour! i would go to see the GP as soon as you can and get the ball rolling on the investigations as it may be something simple or something that warrants furher tests etc or nothing at all as i was first told i really hope you get your baby and you can put is awful time behind you xx

that should say no DC2...thatll teach me not to preview...

Hi Piglet,

Longstocking2 talks a lot of sense re trying to be philosophical, trying to accept that we can't control a lot of things in our lives that we assumed we could/would, and being very grateful for what we do have.

There was a thread here recently complaining about how insensitive people are about secondary infertility, and how glib they are to say "Well, at least you already have a child." And yes, they probably are being thoughtless and don't know how painful it can be, but I found it very helpful to hold onto the idea that I WAS lucky to have DS. I didn't realise it at the time, as I got pregnant very easily first time, but once you've experienced infertility, you realise just how amazing it is to have a child. (I have a friend who hasn't managed to ever conceive and is has almost ruined her marriage and her life. I feel very said for her).

My consultant offered me IVF (my secondary infertility was caused by damaged Fallopian tubes) and I asked him his opinion on whether to go ahead. He didn't talk about statistics and risk factors and so on, and instead said that if it was him, he would feel he had a responsibility to the child he already had, not the hypothetical one he might have. I found that very helpful. I felt empowered by my decision not to have IVF. It was an active choice, not something in the hands of 'fate'.

Admittedly, it helped a lot to KNOW that I couldn't have children naturally any more - not knowing whether you will conceive every month is very stressful and depressing, and although I didn't want to have blocked tubes, knowing that I did meant I could start the hard work of coming to terms with it. The previous uncertainty was harder in a way.

Another thing to bear in mind is that as your DD gets older (and therefore all your friends kids get older too) you move on from the baby stages, second/third pregnancies, and into the realm of older kids, teenagers. There are fewer reminders, exciting new things to look forward to, new freedoms to enjoy, and I have found that has helped a lot too. (Still get broody sometimes, but also sometimes feel like I would have a total panic if, by some miracle, I actually did get pregnant.)

Hope this is helpful in some small way.

Thanks everyone , Longstocking2 very wise words indeed and really very good suggestions too. I think that we should take a break from trying and just enjoy being together again.

have a look at this. there is practical advice and it will help you to know that you're not alone.

www.telegraph.co.uk/health/women_shealth/5088578/Secondary-infertility-One-is-not-enough.html

i am in a similar, though by no means identical, position to you in that I have a DD aged 4. we had IVF in order to have her and, though we were successful, the treatment put me in ICU during the early stages of pregnancy so i can't do it again. all my daughter's friends now have little brothers and sisters and for a while i found it very painful to see the babies being wheeled out, accompanied by the inevitable questions of when i'll be popping out "number two".
now, however, i seem to have just about accepted the situation and moved on. the physical baby craving has passed and i am now able to think of the pros of having just one child (ease of travelling, greater quality time with dd, our finances are more secure etc)
this is probably of little comfort at this point but I thought i'd tell you anyway since there was a time about 2 years ago when i thought the craving for a baby would never, ever stop and i spent most days feeling tearful

Could I ask you what you would suggest pg friends do to help (if they can do anything?). I have two close friends, one who has been ttc for years without success, and another who is pg with dc2. Pg friend was very worried about how to tell ttc friend, but it came out accidentally: ttc friend was absolutely lovely (as she always is), but we are both all too aware that it must be just killing her. It is so very very unfair, I'd do anything if I could, but I certainly, and my pg friend also would certainly, not want to do or say anything that would make it worse for her in any way at all... do you have any suggestions?

Piglet everything I wrote comes from a massive empathy with you. I can't even tell anyone how painful my mc was emotionally and how excruciating other people's pgs were. I've think I've blocked a lot of it out. It nearly ruined my marriage.
I think grieving for an mc is peculiarly difficult in our society. We seem to lack useful rituals which could begin the process of healing and moving on. I felt really ashamed when I mc, it's such a secret business, I didn't want anyone to know. I know that's wrong but I didn't.

big hugs to you, I know so well what you describe and you are not alone at all!

ps I LIVED on mumsnet after my mc with a different name! the women here were stupendous, wonderful fantastic brilliant marvellous and kept me going!