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Original poster

To be fed up with 'expats'...

348 replies

EveWasFramed72 · 19/10/2010 10:33

I am an American, living here in England with my British husband and children (who have both nationalities, but have only lived in England). I've been here for 4 years, and when we were first here, I was miserable;I was at home full time with a new baby, then preganant running after a toddler, basically no close friends, etc. I pulled myself up by the bootstraps and got myself a life: went to uni, got a job, driving licence and created a life for myself outside of my husband. Now, I love our life here, I have loads of friends, a job I like, etc.

But...I am part of a group of American women living in the UK, some of whom have been here longer than me, married to British men. They won't drive, work, survive without several care packages of food from home(because they can't possibly eat what's on offer in England), basically, they sit around and moan about England, and how much better EVERYTHING is at home.

Now, I love my home country, and I do get homesick sometimes, but I just find myself fed up with these women who have given up on life because they are living abroad (and didn't they REALISE that marrying someone from another country means living in said country at some point???). When they aren't moaning, I do enjoy them...it IS nice to have home connections, but this attitude of deliberately NOT acclimating drives me nuts , and I feel like they make the rest of us who enjoy life in England look bad!!!

Rant over...I know, you're going to tell me to cut them off...and I have largely...just not completely.

I just want to know if this is 'typical' expat behaviour?????

OP posts:
Morloth · 19/10/2010 16:16

"What happens when you have lived large chunks in different countries is that you don?t really fit in anywhere anymore. Your accent, your attitude .. everything!"

Nods.

A friend and I were musing the other day that there should be an 'International' option. I have been travelling so long now (most of my adult life) and I am not sure how to stop. We are moving home (tomorrow!) and saying that this time we will stay put but then hedging a little and saying things like 'for a while anyway'.

I would like to give New York a try, but I think I would prefer to raise the kids in Sydney and then go again when they are grown.

expatinscotland · 19/10/2010 16:16

Some people do give up. If you've ever had to live in a real hole, it can get seriously old quickly.

Some people get fed up over a long number of years.

The first 5 or even 10 years they sail along.

But things change in the country itself or they or their spouse can't get going or get further along in their career or their childrens' needs are no longer met, any number of reasons, and they repatriate or expatriate off to somewhere else.

It's best when you just take everything for how it is and not really see yourself as anything other than, well, yourself, able to adapt when possible.

I just never say never.

Original poster
EveWasFramed72 · 19/10/2010 16:16

yangymac I get canned creamed corn from Tesco!!! (I love it, too!)

OP posts:
Morloth · 19/10/2010 16:17

Sorry that should be 'International Citizen' option.

wouldliketoknow · 19/10/2010 16:17

bobmarley, i don't know but i know plenty of people who planned to be here only for a while and circunstances changed, 30 years went by...

my point, if you don't like to live here, why would you? [ excluding anyone who actually cannot get back to their country, for prosecution or extreme need of money to sent back or something like that, there is also lots of those, i understand them moaning though]

expatinscotland · 19/10/2010 16:17

Ah, Morloth, I hadn't realised you were headed back to Oz :).

ZZZenAgain · 19/10/2010 16:18

I think you do always know if you are not accepted or liked for who you are in a foreign country - as in a "damn foreigner". You would just know.

It is similar to what a person experiences when they are confronted with overt or covert racism, I would imagine they know and recognise the difference between interest in someone a bit exotic and rejection of someone a bit exotic.

Morloth · 19/10/2010 16:19

I am supposed to be packing right now, instead I am procrastinating on Mumsnet and looking at the enormous pile of clothes I have to get into a very small number of suitcases...

ZZZenAgain · 19/10/2010 16:19

sorry - that was in answer to Eve...

expatinscotland · 19/10/2010 16:21

'my point, if you don't like to live here, why would you?'

Sometimes, for the sake of their children.

I used to work with an English man who had a son with his ex-partner, who is Kiwi.

He could not leave his job in the UK after they split, or move to NZ. She is much younger.

She wanted their son to have two involved parents, as this man is very involved with their child and also bought her a home to live in with their child and paid as much maintenance as possible whilst also carrying for his elderly parents.

So she's stuck out about 15 extra years in teh UK whilst this child grows up, because it's in his best interest to have a strong relationship with his dad, in her opinion.

It's been tough, she's made the best of it, but she'll be heading back to NZ when this child is an adult.

Original poster
EveWasFramed72 · 19/10/2010 16:21

Morloth and expat I see both your points (I love the idea of an 'International' option!). I never say never, either. My DH and I have said we really want to go expat again, somewhere like Australia, so we definitely have our options open. We've been so busy for the last 6 years,with moving, babies, new house, etc., it's lovely to feel settled somehwhere with no immediate plans to dash off.

When my DH (before he was my DH) was transferred to Shanghai, I had been wishing for a job change...so I now know to be careful what you wish for!! :)

OP posts:
ZZZenAgain · 19/10/2010 16:22

"my point, if you don't like to live here, why would you? "

from what I have seen in my years abroad and the limited experience of it all that I have is that people feel stuck and that they have little choice - too old to move and start afresh, don't want to disrupt dc's schooling, seperate them from friends, dh is from that country and likes it there or is not from there but likes it, job tying them down, money issues prevent them moving, etc etc. Family back home, parents etc have died, there is nowhere really left to go back to . No job perspective at home. Many factors, mostly adding up to make a return difficult.

Once you reach a certain age and have school age kids and all the rest, you perceive yourself as being less free (at least I do)

expatinscotland · 19/10/2010 16:23

Great post, ZZ! I couldn't agree more.

Original poster
EveWasFramed72 · 19/10/2010 16:25

ZZZZen I see what you're saying, but I don't see how that's possible in England, unless you are one of those stereotypical Americans ...if you are generally receptive and make an effort, people will generally be reasonably nice. Is it naive of me to think that?

OP posts:
Original poster
EveWasFramed72 · 19/10/2010 16:27

That last post, ZZ was right on...I do agree with you there...

OP posts:
ZZZenAgain · 19/10/2010 16:28

no you are not naive IMO I see your points and I find them valid but the experience of an American in the UK is not the only experinence an expat can make. In a way it is being a first-class expat if that doesn't sound offensive. I am British and I have made very different experiences in different countries, yet I am the same person wherever I go, at least I think so. I love being in the Czech Republic although it is not at all like the UK, I have liked living in other places a great deal less.

Having just come home from a holiday (which is different of course to living somewhere and really experiencing it) in the states, I can certainly understand why a lot of Americans are unhappy in the UK.

AbsofCroissant · 19/10/2010 16:31

"What happens when you have lived large chunks in different countries is that you don?t really fit in anywhere anymore. Your accent, your attitude .. everything!"

YY. I think that's why I consider myself a "Londoner" as it's where I live now. I'm not really a "proper" South African or British, so Londoner works for me. Until I move again ...

yangymac · 19/10/2010 16:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Original poster
EveWasFramed72 · 19/10/2010 16:31

I know exactly what you're saying about the first class expat, ZZ...that clarifies things immensely.

I am curious...what about your trip made you understand why some Americans would be unhappy in the UK?? I'm just interested in the 'outside' perspective...

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 19/10/2010 16:32

Very true, ZZ.

Again, I've not lived in England, but I have lived in several other countries, some easier than others to 'make an effort' in.

When I'm in the US, I do my best to be happy there. When I'm here, likewise. I don't pine for the one when I'm in the other, mostly.

They just are what they are.

BobMarley · 19/10/2010 16:34

"my point, if you don't like to live here, why would you?"

Well, as been mentioned, children that are happy and settled.

Or, as in my case, a husband that doesn't speak Dutch so if we would want to move to the Netherlands, I would have to work full time whilst he would have to be a SAHD. It wouldn't work and I would risk my marriage.

Having said that, luckily I am very happy here so have no real desire to move.

Original poster
EveWasFramed72 · 19/10/2010 16:35

yangymac I agree!!! DH and I are sometimes TOO 'in touch' with maintaining a good relationship...lol. We just know how absolutely awful it would be to split and work that out.

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 19/10/2010 16:36

Yes, yangy. The other big risk is that your children, will take on the nationality of the nation where they were born in all likelihood.

They will not see the world like you in many ways.

And, even when they are grown, if you wish to repatriate, they may not.

I've brought it up once before but this was the case in one of those 'Home or Away' shows.

The couple had gone to NZ many years ago - about 40 or more.

They had 4 children and many grandchildren.

The lady pined and pined for the UK for a couple of decades.

But in the end she chose to remain in NZ. Because all her children saw themselves as Kiwis, were married to people from there, had children from there, had no Earthly desire to go to the UK at all.

ZZZenAgain · 19/10/2010 16:37

for me Eve, the space and the feeling of freedom that gives you. The non-intrusive easy courtesy of the people (at least where I was). I found it a bit of a shock to return to Europe afterwards and see Europe with different eyes but as I said - it was just a holiday glimpse for what that is worth

strandeadatsea · 19/10/2010 16:53

Bob Marley (damn I thought you were going to be Jamaican until you said you were Dutch!) - you make a very good point.

There is a huge difference between people who have made the choice to emmigrate - possibly forever - and those of us on short term postings who perhaps haven't chosen where they have been sent.

It's fairly difficult to intergrate when you are only going to live somewhere for a few years. Here, people have avoided making friends with me/my dd's because they don't want to make attachments to someone who will be leaving their lives relatively soon. As an expat who is used to moving around a lot, I make friends quickly and move on quickly. That is the same for many of my expat friends here - which is why we hang out together.

I also find that local people don't "need" friends so breaking into groups is almost impossible. I live in a very small place so people have known each oher from birth, are all intermarried etc. As a newcomer coming in, you are not going to make friends easily unless you get together with others in similar circumstances.

So please don't judge all expats in the same way. I think zzzenagain summed it up nicely when she said every expat or immigrant is an individual struggling with an individual situation .