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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be fed up with 'expats'...

348 replies

EveWasFramed72 · 19/10/2010 10:33

I am an American, living here in England with my British husband and children (who have both nationalities, but have only lived in England). I've been here for 4 years, and when we were first here, I was miserable;I was at home full time with a new baby, then preganant running after a toddler, basically no close friends, etc. I pulled myself up by the bootstraps and got myself a life: went to uni, got a job, driving licence and created a life for myself outside of my husband. Now, I love our life here, I have loads of friends, a job I like, etc.

But...I am part of a group of American women living in the UK, some of whom have been here longer than me, married to British men. They won't drive, work, survive without several care packages of food from home(because they can't possibly eat what's on offer in England), basically, they sit around and moan about England, and how much better EVERYTHING is at home.

Now, I love my home country, and I do get homesick sometimes, but I just find myself fed up with these women who have given up on life because they are living abroad (and didn't they REALISE that marrying someone from another country means living in said country at some point???). When they aren't moaning, I do enjoy them...it IS nice to have home connections, but this attitude of deliberately NOT acclimating drives me nuts , and I feel like they make the rest of us who enjoy life in England look bad!!!

Rant over...I know, you're going to tell me to cut them off...and I have largely...just not completely.

I just want to know if this is 'typical' expat behaviour?????

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 19/10/2010 11:40

My ex h is German, but born to an American father (who speaks German, obviously).

Oh, he's not big fan of England. :o

He says he may as well not bother bringing a watch here, nothing runs on time.

MmeBodyInTheBasement · 19/10/2010 11:40

Ragged
I had an Irish friend in Geneva who insisted that fresh milk was not sold in the supermarket here. I don't know what she was looking for in supermarkets, but they always sell milk.

BoffinMum · 19/10/2010 11:41

I have to say I have US relatives and never had a problem shopping and working out what food to buy over there. How hard can it be to do that in the UK? It is because so few Americans travel, do you think? That they expect everything to be like back home? Confused

BoffinMum · 19/10/2010 11:42

Another thing - if I couldn't find fresh milk or whatever in any country I was in, I would ask another local mum to help me. Do other people not do that? Are they shy?

LilMsUnfortunateAxeIncident · 19/10/2010 11:42

I lived in Egypt for 3 years. I couldn't settle, I couldn't accept life there. It was torture. I tried.

It would have been so much easier for me if I did just say OK, this is Egypt, I can accept it. I couldn't. I couldn't accept the role women have in society. I couldn't accept the role men demanded in same society. I abhorred the way children are brought up.

Much of my ill-ease was to do with 'H'. I know. At best, he couldn't be bothered to help me integrate, at worst he actively prevented it.

i tried to learn the lingo. I learnt Portuguese in 4m when I lived in Brazil, I taught myself spanish (OK so it's not great, but I can communicate and understand) spoke some french, german. Brazil was very different, very difficult to understand to begin with, I struggled with the poor/rich thing, with the haves and have nots, but in the end, I understood how things were, I learned that life is not always fair, but that at least you can keep fighting and keep hoping life will improve. Once I recognised the faith and hope present in that society, the self-deprecating humour, the fun factor, I loved Brazil, and in the end blended in seamlessly. I embraced the culture, it was fun, and very warm.

2 things prevented me from learning to speak Egyptian. The first, 'H' decided I was spying on him Hmm; the second everyone that came near me tried to either get something out of me, money, steal possessions, or say that I had said/done something to get me into trouble with H. So that was that. The only hope there is that they can take something from someone who has, rather than go and work hard. There IS no spirit, no fight left. I learnt within the first few months that I was better served if I could shrug and say I don't speak your language.

LOL on the salad cream. I would get HP sauce and Heinz baked beans... at £2 a can.... equivalent of £20 in their money...

75% of the failure to adapt was culture, 25% was H with his control issues. I have a friend out there still. She has a supportive H and money is not an issue, she has a great house and all the trimmings, but is pretty much as miserable there as I was. She just isn't abused on top of her gilded cage life. I know another girl who like me, hated it and dosed herself up every day with sleeping tablets to get through another night, sleep away as much of life there as possible. she has to go back at some point, she is already having nightmares.

It's a truly sad existence.

Most of settling into a country is our own attitude. I couldn't do it in Egypt. I know some can, I have my own pet theories on the success of those who do make it in Egypt, with a H from there. It helps if the H is hugely supportive, makes allowances for the sacrifice of giving up all things familiar. Without this, it's pretty much doomed, unless she gives up all recollection of everything she ever knew in the UK. Which some actually do do.

If the H is also an expat, I think it also helps, cos you are both adjusting to a new scheme of things.

For a expat/trailing spouse to settle in a culture vastly different from her own, there has to be a support network, her H first and foremost, a friend - you only literally need ONE friend to make life bearable, trust me. I've been there. Oh and an open perspective, and willingness to give things a go. I was and I did, but literally got punished for trusting anyone. Every time.

Funny enough, My sister will be returning from living in the US, where she has been for 5 years. She liked life there, house, car, had her daughter, has friends, big job, rubbing shoulders with some very famous people. She liked life, but didn't ever love it.

Strangely for her, and she is the most inclusive and open person I know, she didn't have that many US friends. she found she didn't connect with them on a level she was used to connecting Brits/Europeans. They were fine superficially IHE, but not in depth. Consequently, many of her friends were actually British.

She does have a couple of good US friends, but actually, these people are very deep, very caring and possibly viewed as pretty alternative by their fellow Americans.

So she made her home there, but it wasn't actually HOME, IYKWIM.

I do love my country, I do love Britain, I love and admire the men and women that fought so hard for equality, and continue to do so. I know that with freedom comes responsibility, and I take this seriously.

goinggetstough · 19/10/2010 11:46

Ragged. I lived in Belgium for 7 seven years and it always amazed me but sometimes you couldn't buy fresh milk. It would be very unusual for Sainsburys or Tescos in UK to run out of fresh milk, not so in Belgium. Of course it didn't mean that there was no fresh milk in Belgium but just that you might have to go to another supermarket that week!!

frakkinstein · 19/10/2010 11:48

Can you not, boffin? I swear I know German/English people who took German nationality at birth and then asked to keep it once they were 21.

I am sometimes a whingy whiny moany expat but tbh on so many levels I just don't get the people where we live, which means 90% of the time I don't have anything to talk to them about so my French stagnates (it serves its purpose but I can't do social chit-chat), there are weird social conventions....I find anglophones much easier to deal with. So socially I am probably very like one of those terrible American women.

But I can drive, I work, I buy local food (although sometimes I crave British food/non-tropical fruit) so I feel that makes up for the moaning a little!

MmeBodyInTheBasement · 19/10/2010 11:50

Frakkin
I looked into it when DD was born. You can have dual nationality until age 18, then you have to chose. Germans are only allowed to have one passport. We neglected to tell them that our DC have British nationality too.

Twice I have been unable to buy milk, but both times in the same supermarket which I put down to their inept ordering system.

expatinscotland · 19/10/2010 11:52

I know three people who have US/German nationality. It may be because the US does not recognise other nationalities you hold.

expatinscotland · 19/10/2010 11:53

I see, Mme! Yes, these people 'forgot' they had other nationality, too.

GoreRenewed · 19/10/2010 11:59

I am not an expat so feel free to tell me to bog off, but I wanted to share something that I witnessed in a supermarket the other day that made me chuckle. Two elderly US matrons trying to buy groceries with the help of a rather harrassed looking UK woman.

Re a packet of gravy granules:

US woman no 1: "So dear, you just pour hot water on these then?"
"Yes, that's right"
To other US lady "I guess that's a bit like X (name of presumably US brand)".
To UK lady "Is that like X?"
UK woman "Ermmm....I don't know. Probably"
"
USW1: "Do you have to heat it up afterwards dear?"
UKW "No, just mix it up in the gravy boat and serve it"
USW2 "Gravy boat, dear ?"

A little while later in the jam aisle
USW1 "Oh, now do you think this is the same as ...."

Obviously I paraphrase Grin

All in this wonderful slow courteous manner. I wanted to give them both a hug and take them home for dinner.

BoffinMum · 19/10/2010 11:59

I am not allowed to inherit German nationality because I was born before about 1974 or something and it is my mum and not my dad who is German. My schoolfriend of the same age with a German dad has wangled a passport.

It's very sexist but then Germany often is. I feel quite unhappy about it and odd at the bank and airport.

BoffinMum · 19/10/2010 12:01

Frakkin, you should shut up and enjoy the sun Grin (do you need another intellectual care parcel, btw?)

Psychommead · 19/10/2010 12:01

Mme and expat do/did you also find that you forget the most basic of English words? And that sometimes you miss phrases in the foreign language when speaking English? Like in German 'mir egal' for 'I don't mind one way or another'.

EveWasFramed72 · 19/10/2010 12:01

If anything, I've started to see the 'worst' bits of America by being here. The supermarkets, for example drive me mad...the amount of processed crap you can buy just sends me livid. I much prefer cooking from scratch here, and live in fear that processed stuff will take over British supermarkets...I've already seen them creeping in.

I don't know why some Americans have such a hard time figuring out what to buy; I sometimes would have long and hilrious conversations with my DH or in laws describing the thing I wanted, so that they could tell me the UK equivalent...so it can be done!

OP posts:
EveWasFramed72 · 19/10/2010 12:04

GoreRenewed That made me laugh out loud...too funny!!

OP posts:
Psychommead · 19/10/2010 12:05

BoffinMum I am so glad to hear you say that Germany can be sexist! Before moving here I assumed it was quite progressive in that respect, probably more so than in the UK and am often a bit disappointed.

MmeBodyInTheBasement · 19/10/2010 12:06

Gore
LOL at the Bisto Ladies.
That is a very good example of the problem - Bisto gravy is such a British institution that it took me ages to realise that it was not available in Germany, that there is nothing similar and I would have to import it.

Boffin
That is disgraceful, are you sure that is still law? I cannot imagine a sexist law like that still being in force in Germany.

AbsofCroissant · 19/10/2010 12:09

I've been learning other languages, and feel somewhat miffed that I can't use some of the expressions in English. DP taught me an awesome (and so typically French) one last night - Vivre d'amour et d'eau fraiche. It's talking about having an easy life, or the Hebrew equivalent (if someone's complaining "oh, I had to wake up at 11am today, and then my breakfast was served to me on a platter by my personal servant. I then had to put on my designer clothing etc. etc.") "dvash hakol dvash" (honey, all honey). And another one I sometimes drop into English which confuses people - if someone's very self-obsessed and gauche "Ein lo elohim" "he has no god". That's a good one.

BoffinMum · 19/10/2010 12:11

Yes it is still law. I have just had a big fight with the Embassy about it. I had all my paperwork ready for my interview (100 years' work of genealogical evidence, including our family Bible, certificates stating we did not require de-nazification and the addresses of where all our relatives had lived from about 1930 onwards) and then at the last minute they wouldn't give me an appointment because they found out it was my mother I was claiming nationality from. It means I am blocked from some research funding routes, so particularly unfair professionally.

I think if Angela Merkel is keen to encourage integration they should start with accepting their own relatives first. They are soooo exclusive and cliquey over there.

BoffinMum · 19/10/2010 12:13

dvash hakil dvash is great

My fave German phrase is that someone is an 'Arbeitsmuffler', or workshy.

BoffinMum · 19/10/2010 12:15

What country in their right mind would not want a clean and tidy, self-financing, PhD qualified research educationalist? FFS!

Psychommead · 19/10/2010 12:17

More mutty tham Mutti.

frakkinstein · 19/10/2010 12:17

How awfully sexist, boffin! Mind you the pre-1980s British nationality laws were interesting....

These were British people born in Britain entitled to German nationality so I assume they were just registered as German and didn't mention they were British. Sneaky.

Can't enjoy the sun. Too busy battling administration. How dare I actually want to access the healthcare I've paid for? Or sell my car?

AbsofCroissant · 19/10/2010 12:18

Where are you frakkin?

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