Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Sterilisation for money?

78 replies

Theincrediblesulk1 · 18/10/2010 22:05

I know there is another thread on this, but the op makes no good points!

Ok the scenario.

Heroin addict goes out and hits an old lady over the head, takes her handbag and runs off. But is caught. Should they go to prison? I think most would say yes
So they are responsible for their actions in that account.

So why are they unable to make a decision to take £200 to be sterilised, If they are unfairly tempted by money, the same logic could surely be applied to any crime they commit.

I am all for this actually, i like the lady don't give a shit about the addict, they are big enough and ugly enough to stick a needle in their arm, so they can jog on. I am all for the children!

AIBU?

OP posts:
theywillgrowup · 18/10/2010 22:09

i dont think you are,but sure some will,like you say the kids suffer and ive known class A addicts and there lifestyle does not make for a happy childhood

But im willing to be corrected

Original poster
Theincrediblesulk1 · 18/10/2010 22:15

I have too, a girl i knew as a kid, her mum was on the smack, the girl had a dogs life. Their house was empty, and normally covered in dog crap. And that is from what i seen through a crack in the door (she was too embarrassed to let me see in)
Her step father went on to murder a 17 year old boy, because he was selling him drugs and the boy asked for it on "tick"

At the end of the day, i think its almost a payment for missing out on their "work" that day, who gives a crap if they score with it!

OP posts:
thefruitwhisperer · 18/10/2010 22:15

Everyone has the human right to have children. Addiction is a mental illness, and should be treated in an environment fit for it.

Steriliazation for money is one step away from A Clockwork Orange. Robbing someone of their human rights for the promise of something they are not in the right mind to choose.

Id argue that instead of prison, a drug addicted mugger should be treated in a secure unit with a programme designed to help them recover.

theywillgrowup · 18/10/2010 22:19

human rights,as far as im concerned junkies have NO right to a child

im assuming fruitwhisperer you have never been in a addicts enviroment for a period of time,i truly not because if you have i cant imagine you would have such a liberal attitude towards the subject

thefruitwhisperer · 18/10/2010 22:19

And in the cases where we all know a little girl or boy who grew up in terrible circumstances because of a drug addicted mother/father, why didnt anyone do anything to help these children?! How can communities know of these children and leave them to that life. I know that I couldnt leave a child like that, I would do something to help. Anything.

Original poster
Theincrediblesulk1 · 18/10/2010 22:20

No its not! its not a right to have children at all! Its a bloody privilege, one that is not afforded to everyone!

Oh so they can kill and Mame as many people as they want as long as they do a stint in rehab? You can not force people clean, it doesn't work!

OP posts:
thefruitwhisperer · 18/10/2010 22:20

My mother was an addict for 15 years. Shes been clean for 4 years. She did it after I told her she was dead to me. Without her children, she would be dead.

Original poster
Theincrediblesulk1 · 18/10/2010 22:21

Social services were involved with them! :( And they still let the children stay

OP posts:
thefruitwhisperer · 18/10/2010 22:22

As much as you might want it to be so, we arent god. Everyone has the right to children and to recovery.

Original poster
Theincrediblesulk1 · 18/10/2010 22:25

thefruitwhisperer But that was not your job to do! You were not supposed to save/nurture your mum, she was supposed to be there for you. You have just made my point!

But this is not actually what i am attempting to address, Why are heroin addicts too vulnerable to decide to get sterilised for cash, but not too vulnerable to go to prison?

OP posts:
Original poster
Theincrediblesulk1 · 18/10/2010 22:26

NO THEY DONT!!!! OR EVERYONE WOULD HAVE THEM WHEN THEY WANT THEM Please stop being painful!

OP posts:
theywillgrowup · 18/10/2010 22:26

problem is a few of these addicts children are on SS's books and if SS cant police things how the bugger is joe bloggs

yes if i knew a child was neglected etc i would report but most that have a child with them are already on the SS;s radar

Still leads for a crappy life as alot of the time if the child lives with the parent THEY become the parent,and has a huge effect on their life forever

TimothyWerewolfTuppennyTail · 18/10/2010 22:27

thefruitwhisperer -

As much as you might want it to be so, we arent god. Everyone has the right to children and to recovery.

So if someone can't conceive naturally, do they turn to someone playing 'god' to give them their right to a child?

theywillgrowup · 18/10/2010 22:28

sorry cross post,slow typer

Original poster
Theincrediblesulk1 · 18/10/2010 22:30

TimothyWerewolfTuppennyTail

No what they do is address a letter to mother nature and say "hay don't you know its my right to have children" and she just compiles and says well yeah i suppose fair play!

OP posts:
TimothyWerewolfTuppennyTail · 18/10/2010 22:32

Mother Nature didn't get my letter. :(

Fortunately the hospital got the GPs referral letter. :)

thefruitwhisperer · 18/10/2010 22:32

Does it matter whose job it was to do? Her life was saved. And Im here because she wasnt given the option to be sterilised. I owe my life to an addict and she owes hers to me. These children dont all follow the mistakes of their parents! Nor am I screwed up forever!

This is just one step too far, as someone else on another thread has said, its eugenics!

On a related note, I can see why they favour this scheme in the US. They dont have an NHS so these people cant be sectioned like they could here. So perhaps in America (where they are more fascist right wing) it could work for them.

Funnys5FootUnderThePatioGarden · 18/10/2010 22:34

TIS1 I agree and YANBU. I have had this argument before here. People do not have a right to have children. If you have them you are lucky, and should realise it.

FWIW I agree more so with chemical sterilisation which lasts for a few years. Less final then actual sterilisation but so gives the opportunity for rehabilitation

Original poster
Theincrediblesulk1 · 18/10/2010 22:37

This is nothing to do with eugenics, i am asking ( please keep up or i am going to go mental) If a heroin addict is too vulnerable to decide to get sterilised with a small cash incentive. Why are they not too vulnerable to be prosecuted for crimes they have committed?

Nothing to do with your mum! or you!

And yes i think it does matter who's job it was! She was not doing what a mum should be!

OP posts:
thefruitwhisperer · 18/10/2010 22:39

So are addicts non-redeemable? When/if they get clean, are they allowed children then? Please do decide because clearly you are all judge and jury on who should have children and who shouldnt.

Perhaps I am too poor to have children? Or too white/black/jewish?

Original poster
Theincrediblesulk1 · 18/10/2010 22:39

TimothyWerewolfTuppennyTail

Its all good then x

OP posts:
Funnys5FootUnderThePatioGarden · 18/10/2010 22:40

I am afraid that this argument focuses solely on the rights of the mother and not at all on the rights of any child she might have. That is so on it's head, and so contrary to all other legislation relating to children

QueeheeeheeeheenOfShadows · 18/10/2010 22:40

It is not a human right to have children.

It is the human right for a child to live a happy life as far away from junkies as possible.

Original poster
Theincrediblesulk1 · 18/10/2010 22:42

thefruitwhisperer

Did you read my question at all? no didn't think so please see my above post i am not repeating it again!

OP posts:
TimothyWerewolfTuppennyTail · 18/10/2010 22:43

No-one's judging who should or shouldn't have children.

TIS1 is asking what is so unreasonable about giving someone the option of being paid to be sterilised.

(I think)