So what is the point of Health Visitors?

[wonderstuff]

I've seen 3 so far, they all seem very nice, but really not very useful.

Today lovely lady came by, did PND questionnaire, weighed my baby. Talked about weaning - advised that some babies (especially boys) are ready for weaning at 4 months, to be aware of him taking interest in us eating couldn't give any advise about BLW as no reseach has been done and she doesn't want to get sued - fair enough, but seemed strange that on the weaning age she was willing to contradict research evidence. She also warned of 'missing weaning window at 6 months' I didn't ask what would happen - will I end up bfeeding forever, Little Britain style? Told me breastfeeding was tiring (there was me thinking it was the lack of sleep that was knackering but presumbably if I bottle fed I'd have much more energy?) She stayed for half an hour.

Really what is the point - could money be better spend on Midwifery or Social care?

To any HVs reading this thread - I just want to say:

• I know the pressures you can be under (anyone else like to take responsibility for spotting an abusive family situation and end up in court over it?)
• I know how hard you have to work (I'm on twice an HV's salary, but work less hours then some HV's I know)
• I know yours is a pretty thankless job (oh, so mums don't like to be told that they're putting too many blankets on the baby? That a fire guard would be a good idea? That they shouldn't be smoking in the house? But you say it anyway because you're acting in the child's interest)

...but I'd like to say thank you anyway. I'm fascinated to read some of the posters on this thread who feel they can deduce from their HV home visit what your entire job description is, how hard you're working and whether you earn your salary.

My Health Visitor was a ray of sunshine in my very depressed early days. She was kind, supportive, gentle and I would love to meet her again. Sadly, I moved and was no longer under her.

We do seem to bash a lot of wonderful things about the NHS, I don't think you'll find a health professional visiting you in your own home for free, in many other countries.

But like the song says, you don't know what you got till it's gone.

I think that really this is ripe for a MN campain. Clearly there are some HV doing a very good and very important job. However there are clearly lots of issues with the service and there are even a significant amount of HV doing harm and undermining NHS public health messages. My mother talks very fondly of her experience of HVs, they came and visited regularly and helped when she was suffering PND and also ran classes in the local community where she could meet other new mums.

They need to keep knowledge up to date and be able to support all feeding choices

It would be good if there was some consistancy, if people were allocated to an area. There is potential surely for them to be an active part of a community and be able to put new mothers together through weekly classes/discussion groups maybe - our baby clinic is very much a show up, weigh and move on affair - a sit down discuss how you are getting on type thing would be nicer, espcially for new mums and would be useful for them being able to identifying people who may be vunerable.

Are they worth £34K - if they behave like professionals

Really tired - I asked my HV to define her role - I can still recall her telling me it was "how to look after my baby" - she was capable of no more thought than reading me a published NHS leaflet, I asked her boss to define her role - I can still recall "your HV will be able to tell if you are talking to your baby enough for him to develop speech", the then Chair of the HV Association stated in a national broadsheet that "the role of a HV was to teach ignorant mothers the three C's - cooking, cleaning and communication". I eventually, after a very formal complaint, received from the CEO of the Health Authority something along the lines of the "the role of the HV is to provide guidance in connection with child development".

Sorry but I wasn't an ignorant mother then or now. Regrettably my HV and her boss treated me as if I was and showed no indication of having sufficient commonsense to rear a litter of kittens let alone a baby. I felt I needed a lot of guidance with my first baby. It was very sad that I didn't meet a health professional in the first few months whom I believed capable of providing it.

As I have said before when I require advice from a professional adviser I expect some say in who provides that advice. The ultimate problem is that the HV is an imposed adviser - had mine submitted an invoice - it would not have been paid because the service rendered was not fit for purpose.

Mine was useless, told me that DS would regress sleep-wise when he was about 16 weeks and that this was the sign that he would be ready for weaning - this was when he was 10 days old, she had no other information to offer.

I was at my friend's house when she had an HV visit with her most recent baby. This woman plonked herself on the sofa and proceeded to chatter away about how busy she was, how she didn't have any time to do her job and how cross she was that her team were moving offices because the toilets weren't as nice and they were further away from town so couldn't nip to the shops in their lunch break She did not ask a single question about my friend's baby.
When she eventually left after about 45 minutes I said something to my friend about how nice it must be to have an HV who was also a friend - I assumed they were mates because of the totally unprofessional way she had behaved. My friend had never met her before in her life. I was and my friend was completely stunned.
She could have done with some support too, no extended family around, husband self-employed and working every hour, a newborn and a 20-month old. She had just given up on BFing at 10 days because she felt she couldn't handle it - but because she lives in a nice house in a nice area the HV clearly couldn't have given a shit. I bloody hope that woman wasn't getting paid £34k to spend her days like that.

They are totally pointless. But even more pointless is the developmental checks they do. They just have a series of boxes to tick, and if your child does not meet their criteria, they send you to a GP. They don't seem to get that some children manage different things at different speeds. In my experience all they seem to do is create panic and worry at a time when you need stability and calm the most.

my child is only 9 weeks old and she has had 2 health visitors and today i was told that her 2nd health visitor is leaving in a couple of weeks so she will be given yet another one.
Got her weighed and shes dropped a line so was lectured its no wonder people are hung up on their childs weight when they go on and on about it anyway if they had botherd 2 ask they would hav found out that my child had been unwell 4 2 weeks.

Just to add that I'm sorry that some people have had such awful experiences of their HV but I was lucky enough to have a lovely one.

She came and did the initial visits, was quick and friendly and from memory I had no crap advice although my doula was there for the final visit so it was obvious that I had great support. But after 15 weeks of over-supply problems where I was fighting of blocked ducts/mastitis nearly every day, I went to my GP who referred me back to her (as well as the breast scan clinic). She was fantastic, stated openly that this type of problem needed more help than she could provide with her breastfeeding knowledge and contacted the PCT's breastfeeding counsellor's for me and also gave me the counsellor's mobile number. She then followed up afterwards to check whether I was okay and if I still needed any help - which I didn't.

She rang me late at night each time as she was working late with her work-load. I didn't have a huge problem considering what they must deal with but she made me feel that my health mattered to her and I really value what she does.

Not all HV's are useless and I feel that it's such a shame that the profession is so devalued and overworked that the bad one's don't have time for all important re-training and bring down the image of the great ones.

lol.. loved the 'missing weening window' has to be the best yet... sorry love.. yes its litle britain.. bitee for ever more... shame u didnt laugh in her face.. sounds like a soundbite to me. bless her...

if u ask me.. (trained nurse, mum and cm) some people have commen sense and some dont.. regardless of wether ' health care professionals' or not..

in desperation to get some sleep i shredded wetabix into my babies bottle when he was 5 months old.. worked a treat and he now 21 and strapping lad... u know what.. ignore and do what you think right for your kid... you know best.. not any other person
mil, hv or anybody else for that matter..

oh yes.. developmental checks..

kids do what they do when they do...

in my experiecne if theres a problem its the parents who spot it and then spend bloody months or years trying to get it recognised by so called 'health care professionals' or schools who dont want to spend the money/time/effot

when in dought.. ask your gran/ old neighbour/woman in corner shop... now theres women who have experience and can offer sensible advice..

Please tell me they don't get paid 34k. all the ones i met were very pleasant, but as good as useless. what is their actual use ? any problem and they are only allowed to refer you to a gp anyway. and people are paid 34k for this. just about sums up our society. what a waste.

yes oblomov tis true they're on Band 7 agenda for change, 32 to 40k a year.

amazingly as they conceal it so well, they have to have an Msc to say "every baby's different" or "why don't you just go out for a nice long walk".

I actually (briefly) considered converting to be a HV ( am a nurse already) to improve detection and treatment for PND and emotional well being but decided there was no way i could work with those people.
I'm too bloody outspoken, and intelligent dare i say it.

I wouldn't have been popular.

nice but useless

yes they do.. the trouble is that rearing children is not an exact science is it.. no one has all the answers and can only offer advice..

in the old days mums had their mums, gran and aunties to talk to and that worked out fine.. lots of experience to draw on and mum was taken care of by the family

today its different.. couples are more isolated and with most of us being born to smaller families we have no dealings with small children or babies..

couples read all the crap written about child care and belive they can carry on living the lovely lives they had prior to having kids.. most being in their 30s or even 40s before conceving...

hv should say..

yes having kids is hard.. no you may not sleep for years.. no.. kids may not eat fruit and veg how ever hard you try and yes all have tantrums and are a pain in the arse and embaress you for the first 18 years of their lives and then you may hope for some improvement if you are lucky.. now thats the truth and worth 30k!!!!!

Where I live unless you beg you won't see a HV after the first home visit. As for having an 'assigned' HV - as if!! I've had two dc's (and in fact previously lost a baby at 23 weeks) and nobody has ever bothered to follow-up on anything. With ds1 I was very, very unhappy for the first 6 weeks or so and despite collapsing in tears on her (only) home visit got no other care at all. I really needed some support and it wasn't there.

I found them utterly useless when I did go to the clinic, saw a different one and got completely different advice each time. I know that there are parts of the country that get different levels of care and I can see that if your HV gets to know you and your dc's it could be really beneficial.

However for me, like Oblomov I am horrified at the thought of them being paid £34,000 - outrageous and round here very, very poor value for money.

I guess like any profession they're a mixed bunch..I didn't have a great experience: as I sat there in my PJ's weeping with exhaustion and pain from 3rd degree tear and breast abscess all she wanted to know was when I was planning on 'getting intimate' with my husband again. This set of another wave of horrified sobbing and she just folded her arms across her ample bosom and said 'well, he won't wait forever you know!'. That was the last I saw of her...

MINX...

picking up from YOUR post ,heres the thing.. 'every baby IS different' fact.. 'going out for a nice long walk' CAN be a good cure for depression .. trouble is that now days to state this advice you have to have a degree...

I am trained nurse too, and i mean a proper 80s trained nurse..( havnt got a degree but can actually nurse) two totally different things...

mums need to be told at antenatal that having kids is hard... i think we expect to continue our lives uninterupted and thats the fault of having babies after careers.. 30s 40s and concequently the parents and grandparents who used to help young mums are now too old... all the old support newworks are eroded and we are left with so called health care professionals....

I had my DCs in the US where there are none, and I would have loved to have even a useless one call round and tell me pointless stuff.

I heard they were doing a pilot scheme with something like HVs in Hawaii to see if they could reduce a lot of the problems young parents were having with babies -- sadly a lot of violence against infants among some populations. I hope they felt it would work and that it was value for money.

I agree entirely. When dd was born her hv was horrible. She disapproved of the age gap between myself and dp, we were in the middle of redecorating boxes everywhere etc, so she threatened child protection, went through my cupboards. Etc
I was so hormonal after dds birth I didn't stop her. Anyway, we threatened legal action, changed health visitors and are now reasonably happy.

Community nursery nurses are the worst, very snooty and always eager to put down mums parenting skills, they think that all new mums are inadequate,

To avoid argument, I listen to them but quickly forget and do what I feel is best for dd

Thebody,,are you suggesting that as a degree nurse and a sister with 10 years PICU experience that I can't nurse????
I'd like you to explain that to the family I nursed today.

thebody I think you may need to update your knowledge on current treatments for depression....I'm sure David cameron would love it if walks "cured" depression think of the saving in this era of austerity!!

Unfortunately depression is often a chronic multi faceted and complex illness that requires a comprehensive set of interventions which often include medication and talking therapies to help people recover. Going for a walk is a type of behavioural activation that can help life mood temporarily.

I speak as a RMN of 12 years post qual and a cognitive behaviour therapist with almost 3 degrees. i like to think I can do my job!!

£34k for the level of stress experienced by most HVs is NOT a huge sum folks. Please do not kid yourselves all we do is weigh babies and carry out development checks.

My past couple of weeks has involved two very complex reports for social services, support for a drug abusing Mum who was assaulted by her partner while her DD was in her arms, phoning round to the refuge and various charities and trying to help another woman leave a violent relationship, an interview with police (child abuse investigation team) about a family I was involved with last year, five new mothers, four follow up visits to mothers and babies at 6 weeks (one of which has post natal depression) - I don't DO bloody developlment checks because I don't have the sodding time anymore. All 2 year checks have been dropped (the time when the non talkers are identified and ASD could potentially be spotted - as the mother of a child with ASD I find that dreadful). The 12 month checks are going the same way.

I am knowledgable about breastfeeding despite just 2 hours of theory when at Uni but don't have the time to support new mothers (thank God for the local breastfeeding support service who ARE brilliant).

I work part time and fit all the above around my son's needs. If I worked full time I would earn every penny.

Not saying all HVs are brilliant - some clearly are not and should have been put out to grass years ago. I had such a HV myself but plerase don't tar us all with the same brush and express disgust at what we earn - it's a paltry amount for the level of responsibility we are expected to take if it all goes tits up in a child protection case. And yes - some nights I DO wake up worrying.

Come and BE HV's all of you - there are going to be loads of new training opps according to the Cons manifesto (removes cycical smile from face). Frankly those of us working out butts off need all the help we can get.

no i am not saying that depresion can be cured by on good walk.. of course not.. but i also have worked in mental health, qualified as a REGISTERED NURSE in 1982,, DISTRICT NURSING SISTER in 86 and then REGISTERED MENTAL NURSE in 91 SO I AM NOT WITH OUT EXPERIENCE IN THIS FIELD..

as always with health care professionals we can get pricky when challenged!!!!

I have worked with many depressed people and yes drugs can be absolutley essential and valuable to treatment but so is stopping and spending time taking and listening to patients..

and yes i have found that a good walk can make a diference to the health and well being of a patient as can stroking a pet.. all these treatment are well documented .. its multifaceted..

BUT most of all its time and listening and empathy my loves...

the fact that you mention you have 3 degrees is lovely for you but it doesnt make you good at your job ..... just that you can study...

I speak to HVs regularly in a professional capacity. They do a wonderful job for the people who really need them and offer tremendous support.

dd1s HV was a lovely woman and I wish that I had the same level of care when we moved and were covered by another PCT.

God this is why i hate mn sometimes...

sanctamonious bitches with nothing better to do than bloody moan, whinge, argue, and
bang on about heath visitors when they don't have a clue what they actually do!