So what is the point of Health Visitors?

[wonderstuff]

I've seen 3 so far, they all seem very nice, but really not very useful.

Today lovely lady came by, did PND questionnaire, weighed my baby. Talked about weaning - advised that some babies (especially boys) are ready for weaning at 4 months, to be aware of him taking interest in us eating couldn't give any advise about BLW as no reseach has been done and she doesn't want to get sued - fair enough, but seemed strange that on the weaning age she was willing to contradict research evidence. She also warned of 'missing weaning window at 6 months' I didn't ask what would happen - will I end up bfeeding forever, Little Britain style? Told me breastfeeding was tiring (there was me thinking it was the lack of sleep that was knackering but presumbably if I bottle fed I'd have much more energy?) She stayed for half an hour.

Really what is the point - could money be better spend on Midwifery or Social care?

I have worked with several in professional and personal life-I used to be a solicitor working mainly in family law and was involved in children's hearing system-hvs are great- far from being in a 'cushy'job they are mainly working with vulnerable families and child protection.

Even in 'nice' areas I can guarentee you their caseload will contain a lot of domestic violence, vulnerable families and complex cases.When I was working in family law the HV reports and statements were essential in helping families.

The ones I have met in my personal life were always very helpful- weaning and breastfeeding isn't normally their sphere-it's usually part of the nursery nurse role and breastfeeding support workers-they have to be all things to all men- support breastfeeders but be open to supporting those mums who wish to formula feed.

There is so much to their role prescribing, assessing maternal and infant health often without the client even being aware an asessment is being made.

It's a all graduate profession all have to be registered nurses and some are midwives.I believe the salary is around £34000 - given the workload and level of responsbility they have I think they are underpaid- they aren't like hospital nurses who can ring the medic on call with an issue.

They are specialist practitioners .

I am sure like any other profession there are good and bad HVS but we don't seem to see teacherbashing or solicitorbashing on mumsnet.

Sorry haven't read the whole thread, so this may have been said already.

HV's play a crucial role in some very deprived areas picking up on serious parenting issues, advising on weaning, sleeping arrangements etc and supporting parents with drug/alcohol dependancy issues.

I work in an area (not a HV myself), where a couple of years ago we had a high number of infant deaths related to inappropriate co sleeping arrangements in a short period of time, HV in this area provide important health promotion advice to parents who don't attend baby clinics, read parenting books and certainly don't use Mumsnet, they do what their friends do, so bad practice spreads.

Unfortunately they are also very stretch dealing with urgent protection issues as well.

I suppose I'm saying that HVs today aren't really there for the average mother unless she needs them, they should be focused on where they are needed, but maybe not wanted. Not all NHS commissioning organisations specify services in this way, so HVs waste a lot of time weighing perfectly health babies and telling mothers things they already know. Resources are often in the wrong place.

Surely it is the same as every profession - some are vg, some are ok and some are crap?

My personal experience was that my HV was beyond crap, giving out dangerous and out of date advice and feeding and weaning - I have not seen her since DD was about 3mths and would run like the wind if I saw her again.

Now pg with dc2 I am just going to wait and see what happens. I will certainly be stronger and better informed this time round,and I may well be allocated someone different.

But I can whole-heartedly say that the 2 HVs I saw with DD did nothing except spoil my first few months as a mother. If I see the same people and they are still spouting the same crap I will jusy politely decline the service BUT I will also be writing a few letters, as I am angry and sad that they are allowed to give out such bad advice.

All mine have been very nice people and I would have no problem contacting them if I needed help. Once I did when we had SN problems and they were quite helpful and supportive.

My first one actually made me feel a lot more happy and more confident about being a mum - she just radiated kindness and belief in you.

gardeningmum05 "one even told me not to be worried about a 1 year old still having a bottle before bedtime"

What on earth is wrong with a one year old having a bottle before bed?

It may not have been something you wanted, but she was right that it certainly wouldn't be something worth worrying about [hmmm]

Hi just to say that Ive decided Im sticking with health visiting
Have had a great day. Been at a domestic violence refuge this morning talking to 2 new ladies who appeared with toddlers,bags in arms and battered bodies and minds. They seemed to appreciate the service and feel more at ease that they know the area resources and how to register with GP etc. Also to offload about the trauma they have been through.
This afternoon saw 2 new babies born to families who have known me with their first children. Seemed pleased to see me.
So girls and ladies I am exiting this thread knowing that I believe in what I do and that I am worth my salary.
Bye

In this area a nice cushy number, she hardly looked stressed, very well dressed, high heels, smelt lovely, quite glam really. DNP - assessment what assessment and I was very down!

I really hope that they arnt paid £34K! and when I went for weigh-ins the assistant seemed to be doing everything. Later on a few assessments but very easy. It was a lovely pace of life for him chating and having a laugh.

Really I learnt nothing that I hadnt gained from Gina Ford or any other reference book. Actually I think Gina is well grounded, no wonder they all hate her and always tell you to throw it out the window.

Yes, I would assume dealing with troubled families would take a good HV.

My HV on exclusive breastfeeding - 'And are you STILL not giving him anything else?!' in tones that suggested a sickly waif-like scrap of a child, when in fact he had moved from the 6th to the 91st percentile.
On EBF to 6 months - 'Well, you'll be my first - nobody does that!'
On extended BF - 'And obviously you're not still feeding him...oh....I see, you're one of those mothers....'

But other than that she's actually quite nice!

The Hv's I had both times were lovely. They would come along, weigh the baby, check my stitches, they did the heel prick test, they advised on feeding, answered any quetions I had. They advised the times and days of the clinic, they informed me about breastfeeding groups that I could attend, baby groups nearby, baby massage etc

I never once felt like my personal space was being invaded or that they were checking out my house to report back of some faceless person whether or not my house was suitable.

When I had dd1 the Hv came out for the first 10 days and that was it. After that I took her to the clinc for weighing and jabs.

When I had dd2 I think they only came out about 3 or 4 times as the timing had changed.

They were great as in the first few weeks, depending on the type of birth that you've had, you may not be well enough or feel able to try and get an appointment to get to your GP to ask a question. they come to you to save you the hassle of getting organised and getting out of the house in the first couple of weeks.

Too much work to go around so HV can't keep up to date with everything. Sad thing is, that means their advice is sometimes rubbish and sometimes plain wrong.

I found my HV useless and ended up trusting my instincts and telling her what she needed to hear to tick the boxes on her forms.

I asked the HV (not my local one) at my local baby cafe that I'd heard about BLW and wanted to know more about it. She turned to me, in front of 12 other new mums, and said I mustn't do it, that it was dangerous and my baby could choke. I got the unspoken suggestion she thought I would stick burger and chips in front of DD at 6m and bugger off to watch jeremy kyle.

I trusted my instincts and all was fine. I also felt my HV didn't listen to me. She asked whether I was weaning at 6m and I replied i had gone for BLW and explained how DD liked to hold her chunks of veg. 2 mins later she then told me I should make sure I didn't just feed purees to get DD used to lumps

"Mine kept telling me to FF as my baby must be hungry as not sleeping through.

Also that if she didnt gain more weight she would refer her to my GP.

At 8 months she is weaned, eats loads, no longer BF and still does not sleep through, yet happily on 25th percentile.

I think they are obsessed about that graph.

All they did was feed my anxiety problem."
------
I had a very similar experience with my first HV. DD was a small baby but with no other problems and BF was going fine, she was piling on weight, but the HV kept telling me she "didn't look right" and pushing formula at me. I got so upset I stopped going to the clinic but she kept coming round and checking up on me. I was on benefits and living on an estate at the time so I was probably "high-risk" or something. It was a relationship of deep mistrust on both sides, I think. DD is off to uni next year and also no longer BF :o

Meanwhile, when my sister had her first, her HV was marvellous. My sister was very young, and in an abusive relationship and needed a lot of help. Reading through a lot of the comments here, I get the impression that HVs are great in crisis situations but not so good at day-to-day stuff like BF and weaning. I wonder if this is something to do with their training? I had my kids years ago - I hoped this would have changed by now

"I suppose I'm saying that HVs today aren't really there for the average mother unless she needs them, they should be focused on where they are needed, but maybe not wanted. Not all NHS commissioning organisations specify services in this way, so HVs waste a lot of time weighing perfectly health babies and telling mothers things they already know. Resources are often in the wrong place."
-----
I agree. They need to do the basic checks on everybody but then they should bow out gracefully once they've determined that the mother is coping fine and their "advice" is less than welcome. Then they can reallocate their time where it's really needed. That was my experience when I had my second DC. The HV came round, was thoroughly lovely, listened to me, reassured me, left her contact details and then went away except for the check-ups. I don't know whether that was because it was my second or because I was living in an area with a lot more real problems to keep them busy.

Telling mothers things they already know is one thing, telling them things that are just plain wrong is quite another.

I think unnecessary for most mums. Most people can find out things on the internet, get peer support elsewhere etc etc

I find they are more like "support" for early weeks, but some people may need their help/advice.

I found they didnt really know anything that I couldnt find out or for myself, or didnt already know.

They also offer different and subjective advice so may as well just be a relative but some people dont have access to other means of support.

I would probably say that we dont need them but that something needs to be in place for people with no support.

Oh also I think I had PND with my first and have some kind of anxiety with my second (now) but no one has ever done that edinburgh test thingy on me

@Lucyspangle:"weaning and breastfeeding isn't normally their sphere-it's usually part of the nursery nurse role and breastfeeding support workers-"

I was never offered either of these, it was midwife for a bit then the HV. It's a long while since I had mine but reading the comments, it doesn't appear this has changed much.

"they have to be all things to all men- support breastfeeders but be open to supporting those mums who wish to formula feed."

I really don't see why this is so difficult, especially as these are university educated professionals. Why shouldn't they be competent to advise in two closely related areas (BF and FF)? Can it be any harder than providing IT support to both Mac and PC users?

are they not for the less well off, cared for, dare i say neglected babies.

Luckily DS and I didn't particularly have any problems so the HV checks were a matter of them sitting down and ticking boxes.

I think this discussion has really hit on the problem with HVs. When they're good they're invaluable; but when they're bad they're truly awful and potentiallly harmful.

I think the NHS really needs to take a look at HV training and make sure they are all kept up to date with latest guidelines.

Part of the problem seems to be that they're really overstretched. In the first 6 months of DSs life I saw four different health visitors. I haven't seen anyone for ages-though I know I could approach them if I felt I needed to.

Back again. I know 15 years is a long time ago but the bit I didn't get then and don't get now were the constant refrains from both the community midwives and the hv that they were grossly overworked and the government had a lot to answer for. Firstly, a professional should never take politics to work, secondly, if they were so busy, why did they appear to have so much time to waste chatting about their children, their homes, their low salaries, etc.

Also, I don't think 34k is a low salary, particularly outside London.

I think 34K is too much for their role, maybe deserved in poorer areas. Mine just dropped in for a cup of tea and a chat really.

Hello HV and anyone reading this in charge of NHS budgets,

My HV was lovely, she looked beyond the terrible housing conditions and saw a beautiful baby with a tired mother, she told me I needed to rest more, I knew that but after she left I could tell DP, MIL, Uncle Tom Cobbley and all that 'the HV had said...'.

It helped. In terms of my child and I paying national insurance during our working lives the cost was really very small.

For my friend who certainly felt pre baby that 'she could ask for help, google, see the doctor' the low key, non judgy, seen it all before HV was an absolute lifesaver when she picked up on her PND, I bet that baby is going to be pleased mummy saw the HV because Daddy really did n't know what to say.
BY catching it early surely that saved our overall NHS bill.

So dear HV - thank you, I was to knackered at the time to say it, but I now have a beautiful girl and a lovely home.

Where I am we have two wonderful HVs. They run the baby clinics, do home visits and advise on all the usual stuff - often their advice is preceded with the words "I'm not supposed to say this but..."

One of them also runs fantastic (free) post-natal classes covering such things as weaning - including blw - and baby massage!

Are they worth 34k? Not sure about that but I know they also cover some pretty rough areas so maybe they earn their money there.

Prehaps the problem is that most posters including me do not know what health visitors do. They do far more than give weaning advice to middle class mums.

I think its a pity that health visitors do not stand up for themselves a bit more. They have allowed their profession to be completely and utterly eroded. Many of their jobs are now done by people with far less qualifications.

I have given my health visitor my book on CBT. I want her to lend it to depressed mothers. I think that if health visitors were to read my book en mass then it would do themselves a lot of good.

The biggest problem is that many health visitors are completely and utterly selfless. They get walked all over and disrepected.

Are they worth 34K? Are computer programmers? Teachers? Or is there a snobbery on this thread that nurses are somehow thick and could not be well paid.

No snobbery from me I hope. Think "standard" nurses worth 34K as working for people who need the assistance

Yes HV's become de-professionalised. I guess its hard for them to defend themselves in an area where they have to be careful what they say.

Mine for example told me "the general advice is not to co-sleep but that is not for people like you, you'll be fine"