I know I am, but I can't help it. Child benefit.

[Pinkjenny]

I am from a working class family, dh and I both have good jobs, two dc and a 3 bed semi. I suppose you could say we are comfortable. I work 4 days p/wk, dh obv full time, we are both degree educated, and I would call us lower middle class. If you like that kind of thing.

I would probably argue that we don't really need child benefit. But, what irks me, is that it's really the only thing we do get - we don't qualify for anything else. Now, I completely agree that welfare should go to those who need it most, but it almost seems like you are penalised for being marginally successful.

We have nursery fees to pay, a reasonably big mortgage, yada yada yada. Although we both earn ok money, we're hardly sitting at home counting our money either.

I can't quite put my finger on why the removal of child benefit is irritating me so much.

Perhaps I need a slap, I don't know.

I know I

I don't think it is silly or idiotic to point out that in global terms we are almost shockingly well off. I think it is an important reality check. Most of us should be grateful for our huge good fortune. It is very good for your mental health to feel gratitude by the way. The sense of victimhood and entitlement from a few posters is unbelievable to me! The idea that we work harder than the poorest people in the world so deserve so much more is offensive to me. If you were using your anger to fight for more fairness for others, I would have respect for that, but I've only noticed people shouting about unfairness when they are going to personally lose out.

What things are you "entitled to"? Now you are entitled to CB, in a few years you may not. Stamping your feet and shouting not fair isn't going to help.

Do you really think the amount of tax you pay covers everything you get? Not likely!

I think the whole issue with CB and the way it is being issued in the future is very unfair. I believe we may still get it.

Whilst my children were small i was a SAHM and my husband earned just over the threshold for any benefits etc and we were really short of money as we had just bought a bigger house (nothing special) and the interest rate shot up. My CB paid for playgroup.

I must admit i did get fed up with the non working parents who got everything paid for and i still do as they seemed to have a better lifestyle than us and this still seems to be the case despite both of us working.

you certainly are not rewarded for hard work or thrift in GB these days.

Hahah! They already thought of that...and the tax threshold will be lowered to 42K by the time it is cut.

Apparently 85% of population agree with the way it has been cut from high earners. I suspect that percentage to be a liddle bit lower once they have worked that one out.

I am sooo bitter about this. Our family is taking all the hits so far as the ones just over the threshold with a single income in education. All doing our bit seems to be aimed at the poor, the next generation (um, essential to the big society) and the ones currently holding up the backbone of society in education and healthcare.
Apparentely Nick Clegg would 'be happy' to give up his £2500 benefit. Well...well done him.
All a little shortsighted I think.

CCF aren't we allowed to have opinions, or is it only yours that matters . Of course in the grand scheme of things when you compare us to underdeveloped Countries, we are incredibly fortunate and should indeed be grateful. I was saying nothing of the sort, and glad that we have a health as social care system for us if we need it. Chill, can't we have a little moan.

Not true that all cuts affect middle class families only! The abolition of quangos will put lots of people of all types of out work, and measures were announced today to stop very high earners (£100K a year plus) from getting such a tax break on huge pension contributions, and it will raise £4billion, apparently. These cuts will affect everyone.

Piglet, I've been called names here, so I don't see my opinions getting any special treatment. I'm allowed to post them and to think they have some validity, even if you don't. Where have I said you can't post?

The loss of 2500 to nick clegg and david cameron is a drop in the ocean. Their shoulders are broader so they should be sending their children to private schools and paying for NHS treatment if they want to show we are all in it together. If 44k is as big a salary as they make out why are mps being paid 64k?

They are just making up every excuse under the sun to avoid asking the really rich to contribute more.

I think the problem here is one of perception, and this latest cut just divides us up even more into little clusters of resentment. So, we won't stand up for each other because we are too busy nursing our own wounds. Here, the media and politicians are v clever.
EG - that awful 'pointy elbowed middle classes' comment - making out we are evil education grabbers snatching algebra from under the noses of small urchins
EG - 'the deserving poor' implying some aren't deserving
EG - 'not a lifestyle option' etc etc
So, I (DH HRTax payer, me PT charity worker, big nursery fees, mortgage and debts from prev marriage) resent my friend's unemployed dd spending her dole money on tattoos, lizards and New Look. She, in turn, resents me for having a big house. I don't know that she can't ever dream of getting a mortgage , she doesn't know ours is about half our income each month.

Pink. I am going to miss CB but we do have 3 years' notice. It would have happened anyway. It is unfair. It is unfair that some people have parents to help out on the housing ladder, and inheritances are unfair. It is unfair that some people are on massive pensions now, which are unfunded, and therefore our collective liability.

Do we have a definitive answer to the 'putting payrises into pensions', suggestion?

(Pink, I still think that no one should quote back anything you said whilst in labour)

ColdComfort, we do have an open fire, but (obviously) only in the front room, and it doesn't warm the bedrooms (duh). And DH IS a higher rate taxpayer.

Do we have a definitive answer to the 'putting payrises into pensions', suggestion?

Unless I'm missing something isn't it the following calculations:

Higher rate tax level - wage =amount over

CB = first born amount +(nokids *rate)

Amount over - CB = figure

If figure is positive then not worth it, figure negative then is.

So need to know:

Higher rate tax level - (looks like it already set to come down).

Wage in three years

CB amount( rate for FB, rate subsequent DC, No DC and age limits on DC being eligible)

And the calculation would change if/when any of these items changed.

Then watch out for any change in rules allowing this in future years, any limits that may apply to amount allowed to be
put in pension schemes ect.

Easy really .

I just don't get this attitude that people on benefits somehow have a good lifestyle. It's basically impossible to feed a family a healthy diet, pay the fuel and heating bills etc on benefits.

Hi - sorry - do not have time to read whole thread but I think OP is not being unreasonable.

What is being attacked here is the 'universality' of child benefit. Children are not the property and sole responsibility of their parents. We are raising them as best we can until they can take their place in society; the vast majority of this cost is borne by the family. As a society, we support the elderly (when they also have families who could contribute?) so why not an element for children.

I think this government's proposal is short-sighted, unfair and designed to divide and weaken any opposition.

If CB has to go, I would much rather see it go for everyone but be replaced with universal free school meals (FSM). Lots of pluses:
? Saves a lot of £ (Approx value £400 per child per year - for me (3 children) this would save govt. about £1300 pa).

? Everyone would know the money is spent on the child (a criticism often levelled at CB).
? No stigma for any child currently on FSM.
? Saves admin of applying for FSM ? by parents and local authority
? Saves admin of dinner money in school.
? Saves local authorities bidding for FSM funding.
? Helps with obesity and healthy eating.
? All children get a shared & sociable hot meal daily.
? More part-time kitchen/MDSA jobs in schools.
? Big positive announcement for chancellor (not particularly wanting to help them out but trying to sell my idea!)
Can't think of single disadvantage - except for low income families currently in receipt of FSM who would lose CB but gain nothing. Surely this group could have further supplement to child tax credit to compensate.
Most families outside the child tax credit thresholds would lose out by a third to a half of existing child benefit but to me this is much fairer than some losing all and recognises the child rather than punishes some children for having parents with a particular income pattern.

Has anyone seen this raised or is it a ridiculous idea?

You voted Tory: I have no sympathy. None.

Bit of a shock they came for you? Expected just the poor to cop it from the Conservatives? Oh dear. Console yourself with the knowledge that, over the course of their governance, you'll still come out of it better than those less well off than you.

Some really interesting posts.

I wonder if the many £44K plus earning CB whingers are the very same who've also defended their expensive handbag fetishes on t'other thread.

Just a thought...

Heracles/Deadly Sins

Not sure who you think voted Tory (I certainly didn't... but irrelevant anyway). They mythical £44,000 is not a huge sum since it represents gross rather than net income. If working and paying tax, NI, compulsory pension conts and the real biggie - childcare (for 2 nursery aged chn can easily be £1100 - 1400 per month) - the real useable income before starting on mortgage/travel etc is probably high 20,000 - low 30,000. Certainly better than benefits or a very low wage but bear in mind no tax credit/free school meals etc as some of the lowest earning households (deservedly) receive. Do feel very lucky compared to some who I know work just as hard but am certainly not rolling in it!!

i think a country that gives out so many benefits is ridiculous, people should be responsible for their own fate and not expect the government to pick up the bill on their short comings.

if you can't afford 10 kids- don't have them...
if you want more money- work harder
if you want a better job go out and get one.

I know it was only a film but the story of the pursuit of happiness is testament to what people can do.

Why do we have immigration issues?? because we are a free ride.

Really annoys me, we made our own wealth and proud of it, i wasn't university educated and nor was my dh but we have strived to achieve what we have through hard work. Why are people so afraid of that?? i wish i could shake these benefit scroungers and tell them to have a bit of self respect

op- that was not directed at you, just needed to vent i'm sorry

ah gratitude. I have gone on about gratitude before now on here. It seems in short supply. I genuinely feel grateful for huge chunks of thing and happy and lucky. It's a shame more people don't feel so.

I would go along with rdmummy too - work harder. I work a lot harder than most people and surprise surprise I earn a lot more. If you remove the shackles of thinking that say you can only work XYZ hours and see time slots like 5am to 7am on Saturday morning as working hours many riches can be yours.

OP I did think YANBU, then you said you voted Tory. Sorry but YABU- what on earth did you expect? That others would get a kicking and not you? And if it was others, then it served them right? But not you?

I always envisaged CB as recognition that children are a common good and that while society as a whole benefits from our children, parents (especially Mums on average) are the ones who disproportionately bear the cost.

To all those who say they've never got anything from the govt though - you don't need to be compared to a wartorn country. I've lived in the US and you really don't get anything there as a parent. No CB for sure, no free healthcare and in the state we lived in, education was only free from kindergarten (Year 1) and then it was only for 2.5 hours a day! You paid for all the rest - certainly no free nursery from the age of 3. So while I may lose CB (just below threshold with childcare vouchers and pension) in the future, the govt still gives us a helluva lot more than we got in the US (and we paid taxes through the nose there as well)!