I know I am, but I can't help it. Child benefit.

[Pinkjenny]

I am from a working class family, dh and I both have good jobs, two dc and a 3 bed semi. I suppose you could say we are comfortable. I work 4 days p/wk, dh obv full time, we are both degree educated, and I would call us lower middle class. If you like that kind of thing.

I would probably argue that we don't really need child benefit. But, what irks me, is that it's really the only thing we do get - we don't qualify for anything else. Now, I completely agree that welfare should go to those who need it most, but it almost seems like you are penalised for being marginally successful.

We have nursery fees to pay, a reasonably big mortgage, yada yada yada. Although we both earn ok money, we're hardly sitting at home counting our money either.

I can't quite put my finger on why the removal of child benefit is irritating me so much.

Perhaps I need a slap, I don't know.

I know I

sieglinde - I tend to agree.

The one obvious thing this cut has done is to stir up huge resentment where there was very little before.

When everyone got it, you might hear the odd mutter of 'why do footballers get CB?' but no one batted an eyelid at middle income families getting it.

Hey ho.

Do you think you are feeling peed off about it partly because you made choices on the basis of that benefit being in place? I was talking to a friend yesterday with 3 under five. They are in a similar position to you and are really stressed thinking about how they will manage without it. They budgeted for paying childcare for 2 DC (eldest at school) on the assumtption that the CB would always be paid and that tax credits would remain at the current level.

They are going to stop it at 16 as well arn't they? Seem to remember something about that. Doesn't affect me but I'm glad I am still getting it for DD through 6th form. Especially in light of what is going to happen when she gets to Uni.

I can understand how people are feeling peed off but it's not a great deal of money to lose for people on high incomes. Wage rises in the next few years will more than cover it.

I agree with OP. We both earn just about the limit. But we are not sitting at home counting our money out - and why should our kids matter less to the Government than those whose parents earn less?

I agree with longfingernails, if you are just over then try and find a way out of it, this is what I am going to do if I ever get close to it. I work 4days a week at the moment and if I went back FT I would be over it. Look at the options, more into your pension or other salary sacrifice schemes, or take some unpaid leave to keep you under.

It irks me too, and I'm not affected...yet. It does mean I won't be in a rush to get promoted or look for a better job though as it will have to pay a lot more to make it worth losing the CB.

I would rather a tax rise than losing CB, not sure why, but I would.

Gramercy
""Figures released to Parliament last month show that child benefit is being paid to the UK-based parents of 28,760 children living in Poland.
The cost is estimated at £23.8 million. On top of that 2,051 children in Slovakia benefit from the payments, along with 1,012 in Lithuania, 295 in the Czech Republic and 113 in Bulgaria">>>>#

What about it? Its an EU directive, its not something the UK can opt out of. And do you really think parents who work and pay tax the same as you do should no get Child Benefit because they are living away from their parents? So they should not only be without their parent but also not recieve what they would have got if they lived in the UK? Don't you realise that its a net saving to the government by having them stay elsewhere...no school places, no NHS burden, nothing like that.....

But nice, attack foreigners instead of the Government.

The reason it irks me is not just because I'm losing it but because I (like lots of others in the same bracket) have been hit hard by the recession already and it's just another body blow. If you're employed whilst you might bemoan the lack of recent pay rises IMO so far you've been relatively unaffected by the downturn. Like other small business owners our income has halved. We struggle on to keep ourselves and our employees in work and it's just another kick in the teeth.

"I would probably argue that we don't really need child benefit. But, what irks me, is that it's really the only thing we do get - we don't qualify for anything else.

We have nursery fees to pay, a reasonably big mortgage, yada yada yada. Although we both earn ok money, we're hardly sitting at home counting our money either."

When I started out in my first job, I was on law society minimum wage at the time, £12k for a trainee. I had huge students as I came from a low income single parent family and had to borrow money to go thru law school.

I had a huge overdraft, had to live at home as had no money to afford a place of my own to live, I'd never taken anything out of the state, rarely saw a doctor. I qualified for no help. However at that time, the taxes I paid on a £12k salary contributed to people with ok money who didn't really need child benefit.

Fair?

^ Sorry above post should have said huge student debts.

I totally agree with Riven.

Why do people think the government is like a shop or a bank? 'Oh, I paid in, I should get out.'

Well, no. 1, you do get out. A stable society is invaluable because it allows you to even do what you do for a living without getting shot at or nearly starving. No. 2, you have to pay tax everywhere, and if you want to live in a low tax place, I can promise you it can really suck.

I don't understand this sense of entitlement and idea that if you pay in, you should get cash out. It's not a bank.

Pinkjenny, nobody likes to lose money, but I am so annoyed at this whine that CB 'is all I get back' from the state, which I seem to read a lot. So who pays for your maternity care? Your births? Your children's healthcare and education? The road outside your house? The police? I know for a fact that I don't pay enough tax to cover the annual costs of my children's education, our healthcare and the provision of bin removals, safe roads, the police who investigated a crime against me this year, and so many other things. I am, as a parent, already heavily subsidised by the state.

but expat it's more subtle than that. To have the "Big Society" then everybody has got to feel they are a valued member of that society. By hitting certain sectors harder than others you risk alienating those sectors so they don't feel a part of that society.

They should be more bloody grateful for a society that enables them to be high earners in a safe democracy with decent healthcare and education IMO

"a stable society is invaluable"

yes, it is. But at the moment it seems as if those who are the backbone of that stable society are the enemy of the state. Working hard, playing by the rules, keeping your head down = victim asking to be financially bullied.

So, in other words, you have to give them cash to make them feel part of society? If that's the case, then the problem is far deeper than Child Benefit, IMO.

If you've got a society that is so spoilt they don't realise how incredibly valuable a society with really good infrastructure is, and recognises how expensive that is to maintain, the future doesn't bode well for it.

'But at the moment it seems as if those who are the backbone of that stable society are the enemy of the state. Working hard, playing by the rules, keeping your head down = victim asking to be financially bullied.'

Oh, please!

The sense of entitlement many people have here is truly mind-blowing.

I've lived in places that are utter holes, where food is scarce for most, kidnapping is rife, sanitation leaves something to be desired, education is not free for anyone and that includes primary/learning to read basic skills like that, medical care not free as in you can't pay for it, you go without it.

I thank my lucky stars every single day I don't have to live in a place like that for good.

Low taxes, though.

Honestly, listen to yourselves. OP has already said they don't need it.

You really have to want that 'victim' status to claim it when you are a high earner in a fantastic developed country! Blimey, as mothers used to say 'think of the starving in Africa'. I am nowhere near the HRT tax bracket, but constantly remind myself that in global terms, I am Raman Abramovitch, and my children are lucky, lucky, lucky. At night, when I go to bed, I lie on my soft mattress in a warm room, and think of those who sleep on wooden pallets before a day at the Primark sweatshop, or those who sleep on the hard ground before a day of subsistence farming, or the people in prisons in China, and I am so grateful for who I am and where I live, and how I am able to educate and feed my kids. Yes, I worry about money and moan, but fundamentally I try to stop being a spoilt princess and realise how fortunate I am - healthy, alive, comfortable, warm, and able to give those things to my children.
I agree with Expat and Riven, and I suspect they prob have a lot more reason to moan and feel alienated from society than the HRT taxpayers on this thread.

Nerdyface - wtf do you mean by asking OP if she voted Tory and if so, she brought this on herself? I assume you mean that a Labour gvt wouldn't have cut benefits? Oh no, they would have bankrupted the country instead.

ColdComfort - humbling post.

I feel bad now. Take it! Take it all!

It is amazing how many are still whining about this but have been silent about the cuts that concern the poorest and most vulnerable members of society.

FFS get a life and be grateful for what you have.

It is sickening to read these opinions; when it was thought that those who need the help the most were going to be targeted it seems that that is considered fine.

There has been talk on here of people being made homeless due to these cuts. Cuts to services to the elderly and disabled have recieved very little attention.

It is ludicrous to pay benefits to people that earn so much above the national average.

When your child cries before school because it is cold and you can't afford heating, then come back.

This is the tories after all.

Ladies, I am glad I started this thread. It has been an eye opener, and I did state in my OP that perhaps that was what I needed.

And that's where I'm going to leave it.

Look, I'm as prone to self-pity as anyone, and I don't want to lose any money either. I am not sure that it is right to take away CB, and I can see it is unfair to do it this way rather than simply make it taxable. I admit our joint income goes a little over the HRT threshhold, so we are the beneficiaries of the CB unfairness, but even if we weren't I would try to be grateful for what in global terms is a lifestyle of unimaginable luxury. I don't have to worry about being bombed or starving to death for a start, which is not true for so many people in the world.

listen, one of the reasons the Universal Benefit was introduced was because it got buy in from EVERYONE. DIdn't matter what you earned, who you were...everyone was investing in it and everyone got a bit out of it. It was thought that this was important - to have a system that we ALL bought into it.

I can understand why they want to go against that now for financial reasons but then SURELY all universal benefits must be subject to the same reasoning and they aren't.

I have no problem with effectively means testing benefits but the minute this was announced and there was an outcry, they announced the married tax allowance which will cost as much as they will save so there was no bloody point in the first place!

It wasn't well thought out, there was no real process of analysing the best way to do it. It was a rush job and it shows.

Well, flame me if you like, but I think it's a silly argument to say, "Stop moaning, you've got two legs".

Of course I'm very appreciative of the fact that I don't live in a war-torn country and that I have two lovely dcs and a (reasonably) decent dh who doesn't beat me up.

But nevertheless I still think I have the right as a citizen of this country to expect fair play.