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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I know I am, but I can't help it. Child benefit.

148 replies

Pinkjenny · 14/10/2010 10:41

I am from a working class family, dh and I both have good jobs, two dc and a 3 bed semi. I suppose you could say we are comfortable. I work 4 days p/wk, dh obv full time, we are both degree educated, and I would call us lower middle class. If you like that kind of thing.

I would probably argue that we don't really need child benefit. But, what irks me, is that it's really the only thing we do get - we don't qualify for anything else. Now, I completely agree that welfare should go to those who need it most, but it almost seems like you are penalised for being marginally successful.

We have nursery fees to pay, a reasonably big mortgage, yada yada yada. Although we both earn ok money, we're hardly sitting at home counting our money either.

I can't quite put my finger on why the removal of child benefit is irritating me so much.

Perhaps I need a slap, I don't know.

I know I

OP posts:
KickArseQueenOfTheDamned · 14/10/2010 13:55

Cupcakes "Competative poorness element" now????

That is shitty.

Biscuit
ColdComfortFarm · 14/10/2010 13:58

Gramercy, if you think that it is unfair that you don't get a cash bonus on top of all the things that the state provides for you, when you are already very well off (and in global terms, a billionaire) then I think you have a wildly inflated sense of entitlement. You say you are appreciative, but you don't sound it.

ColdComfortFarm · 14/10/2010 13:59

Foxinsocks, do you really feel you get nothing out of the state but child benefit? Really?

sieglinde · 14/10/2010 14:02

We haven't turned our heating on till 1 November for four years now....Then only 1 hour in the evening. Yes, I mean it.

Original poster
Pinkjenny · 14/10/2010 14:06

I'm back again, I knew I couldn't stay away Grin

I have two examples of close friends, both with 2 dc:

Friend 1 - her FIL bought them a (massive) house. No mortgage, she doesn't work, no childcare fees. They will still get CTC and CB.

Friend 2 - her and dh both work full time. Both earn (not much) below threshold. Her mum and MIL provide their childcare. They will still get it.

I don't think it's a question of entitlement, it's a question of fairness.

OP posts:
ColdComfortFarm · 14/10/2010 14:06

I'd guess you aren't a HR taxpayer then!
Have you got an open fire at all?

NonBlondGirl · 14/10/2010 14:07

If your just over the threshold apparently you should look into the Salary Sacrifice scheme - where workers can become basic rate taxpayers in exchange for pension contributions.

Apparently swapping salary for other benefits like childcare vouchers or extra weeks holidays might be options.

I've been told even taking a pay cut with no benefits might work out better as you save tax and N.I and the employer might allow it as they save N.I contributions.

It doesn't affect us at the moment - but I've heard a lot of speculation that the salary levels it affects will be lowered in the future - which wouldn't surprise me at all but then I'm not sure NHS is going to survive the baby boomer generation.

BumsOnSeats · 14/10/2010 14:09

IMPORTANT info for those of you thinking about upping pension payments/dropping working hours to get back under the HRT threshold - the government is planning to reduce the threshold next year and the year after. Looks like the threshold may go under 39K ultimately.

foxinsocks · 14/10/2010 14:09

no, I never said that ColdComfortFarm.

What I said was that the UNIVERSAL BENEFIT system was designed so that everyone felt they had a stake in it (so we all contributed and all got something out of it). The NHS works on the same principle. We can all benefit from it.

As I think riven said on another thread (might not have been her), you get all these accusations hurled around now about 'poor scroungers' (not by me I hasten to add) but one of the reason universal benefits were introduced was to make sure everyone had some stake in benefits.

As I said, I have no problem with the concept of means testing benefits especially if it's part of a set of financial cuts but why then introduce the married tax allowance to give more out? The whole thing doesn't make sense to me.

foxinsocks · 14/10/2010 14:13

but pinkjenny, there's absolutely no way the tax/benefit system could take into account parents who buy their children houses and people who get free childcare!

That's just life!

ColdComfortFarm · 14/10/2010 14:14

the married tax allowance idea is a complete crock of shite, I agree, and I very much doubt it will actually happen.
I think people should think a bit harder though about what they DO get for their taxes, not about what they don't. HOw much is the cost of educating a child? I think between 5K and 7K a year? So for three kids that's 15K at least, which is a lot of tax money!

NonBlondGirl · 14/10/2010 14:15

I've heard and seen lower estimate than 39K -
just have to wait and see.

I think it will prove to be a handy way to phase it out completely over the long term for any government.

OrmRenewed · 14/10/2010 14:16

"I think people should think a bit harder though about what they DO get for their taxes, not about what they don't"

That's true CCF. I have 3 DC and they are all being educated by the state. Between us we've made quite a bit of use of the NHS. I think it's a fair exchange TBH

foxinsocks · 14/10/2010 14:16

the nhs is one of the real value givers I believe. It's an amazing service really.

I think we need a mindset change and I do think all universal benefits should be means tested or limited in some way but I would hope political parties would investigate the best way to implement something first rather than a cack handed way of doing it.

Original poster
Pinkjenny · 14/10/2010 14:17

foxinsocks - I know, and Big Dave says means testing would be too bureaucratic etc, and obviously that would open a huge can of worms, but it still doesn't seem fair appropriate.

OP posts:
NonBlondGirl · 14/10/2010 14:19

But ColdComfortFarm doesn't the whole society benefit from educating all children?

I have to admit we've had some bad experiences recently that have made me very grateful for the NHS to be free at point of use.

nobodyisasomebody · 14/10/2010 14:22

Pinkjenny- you can't legislate for parents buying a house for children or providing childcare.

I am a lone parent with no help. In fact I am a nearly full time care for elderly grandparents, in addition to working and my child has additional needs.

You just have to cut your cloth and be grateful for what you have.

I live in a very affluent area and am much poorer than my friends, but that is the way it is. One or two of my friends are even a bit jealous of my "perfect minimilistic" house, but that is because I have no furniture, no tv, not much of anything.

I find the envy is just in their nature really.

buttonmoon78 · 14/10/2010 14:22

Why is the married tax allowance a crock of shite? (Although it would be better named as a sahm-donates-tax-allowance-to-OH allowance IMO).

We have made sacrifices for me to be able to stay at home, and when I first did so (yonks ago with dc1) the married tax allowance made the difference between heating and no heating. Period.

Also, my DH will earn just over the threshold but will not be able to make it up with pay rises. He doesn't get them.

I didn't know about the pension things though. I thought it was on gross income?

foxinsocks · 14/10/2010 14:24

I know, look pinkjenny I can see how you feel. I bleed money into childcare every month. Then smile sweetly at the parents who I know get free full time childcare from the children's grandparents and go away for child-free weekends etc. and have large houses because they don't have a big childcare outpayment every month so can afford a bigger mortgage yadda yadda.

I would say 364 days of the year I am not bothered at all by it at all though.

You have to be content in your own skin otherwise your whole life will be one big misery to you.

Did you ever see the study they did on lottery winners? The happiest were the ones whose lottery win meant they were then on the same social standing as their friends! That seems to be something that keeps us happy - not being substantially poorer or more wealthy than those close to us!

Original poster
Pinkjenny · 14/10/2010 14:28

foxinsocks - I'm a work in progress!

OP posts:
foxinsocks · 14/10/2010 14:29

lol

foxinsocks · 14/10/2010 14:34

the other thing is keep looking forward to the time when you will have no childcare fees. It will happen, one day! Then you will feel a lot better off and probably feel guilty that you were getting child benefit (if it was still around) Wink.

southeastastra · 14/10/2010 14:40

think it's perfectly reasonable for op to be pissed off about it.

pigletmania · 14/10/2010 14:43

YANBU at all, my dh is a higher rate taxpayer and the only thing we get back from the goverment is Child Benefit. As rational people we know we dont need it and there is a deficit to make up but still irks.