to think this is a strange thing for a teacher to say to a five year old?

[hellymelly]

quite long,sorry,but need to give the background-DD had a horrible Summer hol worrying about going back to school,as on the induction day for her new year one class,she took a dislike to the teacher and spent the whole holiday upset and scared about going back to school.Thanks to the (lovely) head we had a meeting between DD and the new teacher the day before school started,the teacher was lovely to DD and all seemed resolved, certainly DD from then on has been very happy with her teacher,but otherwise generally upset in the class and crying in the mornings,crying at bedtimes and weekends etc.We had another meeting with the head,and her form teacher,and they have helped with some of the things that DD was getting most stressed about (lunchtimes etc).However,we have held off mentioning to the head that DD doesn't like the assistant teacher,who she says is very "grumpy"and is quite scared of.(I did mention it briefly to her teacher)We hoped that as they got to know each other better DD would not mind her so much,but on several occasions she seems quite bullying and unkind towards DD,and to some of the other children,(many of whom seem to feel the same as DD about her).Anyway we were in with the head yesterday at end of day,talking over the progress and planning how to continue,the meeting ran slightly over picking up time,and when I realised I went straight to DD's class.She was sitting on the floor on her own looking very upset,(the AT and a helper in the room)I assumed it was because she had been waiting for us to pick her up, but when we got home she said "Mrs X told me that I shouldn't be crying (she wanted to come to me)she said I am lucky to have a Mummy and a Daddy,and that she hasn't got a Mummy and Daddy.I asked her why not,and she said that they had died a long time ago".DD took this to mean that they had died when Mrs X was a little girl,(I have no idea when they died.Mrs X is in her 30's I would say)and she was very upset.She said that maybe that was why Mrs X is so grumpy,and she also seemed worried that someones Mummy and Daddy could die.Is this not a really strange thing to say to a five year old? We have had a few better days with DD recently and her teacher and the head have been really trying to help her settle into full time school,but now this!What do you think,and what would you do?

Her reception teacher gave her a really glowing and lovely report and said in it that she had an unusually mature attitude for a child her age,so yes,hopefully that side of her will have filtered through to the head.Her teachers last year were absolutely lovely and she adored them,and as soon as she had a chance to get to know her form teacher this year properly she said how "lovely and kind and cuddly" she is,so she really isn't prone to harbouring grudges,whinging,or thinking the worst of anyone.I am very happy with the school too,I've had no complaints at all, but I have thought that this TA seems not to like many of the children ,and that she can sound really quite bullying and threatening when talking to them.They are a really well-behaved lot,not very challenging children imo.

Sometimes you do get people working in schools who just shouldn't be. For example, the teacher I was a TA to sat all the kids down one day, found out which ones had parents who hit them at home, and then used this information as ammunition when she was having problems controlling them (threatening to tell their parents they'd been naughty).

This was about 10 years ago in an inner London reception class.

If your instincts say something's wrong, you should act on it IMO.

lowrib ! that is terrible.
Well I do think the TA is strange,which worries me,and part of that is because I know my DD and how she reported the conversation,which is hard to convey here.Also she took quite a while to tell me about it,she was very quiet,which only happens when something has really shocked or upset her.
I am concerned about acting on it because we have had this other stuff going on and the two meetings with the head etc,which is why I covered it in the post to start with.I don't want to be trotting back and forth with different problems.If this had happened last year I would have gone straight to the form teacher or head,but now I am not sure as I don't want to make things difficult for DD in any way,and I am grateful for the support we have had from the school.incidentally it was the Head's idea,not ours,to have a follow up meeting yesterday.(sensitive and paranoid emoticon needed).

I have a 'sensitive' child too, and I think your DD sounds lovely. You (and your DH, and other parents) obviously have a number of concerns about this TA, quite apart from the conversation in question.

However, as you say above, given that you have had the other stuff going on I don't think I'd be inclined to trot off to the teacher/head about this right now. I'd be worried about being seen as a troublemaker or having my concerns written off as being tied up with the other stuff.

I would encourage your DD to approach the other teacher when she has a problem, and to take the TA with a grain of salt.

I would also take note of the various concerns, and any future ones, and mention them at some stage in the future to the teacher or the head, ideally when you are already seeing them about something else and can just throw this in - kind of 'oh, I was also a bit concerned about TA's attitude, not sure if DD got the wrong end of the stick but xxx (couple of examples)'.

You sound like you're doing all the right things, except that I do agree with the poster above about not letting your DD be too aware of your concerns/meetings as it will only make a bigger deal of it all for her (I know because I'm prone to doing it myself!).

did she meet the ta when she went into the class that first time, as a matter of interest?

i think you've had an absurdly hard time, here, helly. some kids take longer to get used to school, and of course that situation has to be 'managed' so that they don't get put off altogether.

plus, if people don't speak up then heads can't know what's going on. maybe there are already complaints pending re this woman, and one more will tip the balance to getting something done? who knows?

Well, kids need to meet all kinds of people. And shock, some of them might be a bit grumpy. That's life.

If you'd like to have a crack in a primary school with young children and remain relentlessly happy day in day out, then be my guest.

People think primary school is the easy option, you know, all those clean, shiny, scrubbed faces, primary colours, potato printing and having fun. Well no, actually, it is far more hard core that people realise. Secondary teachers go pale at the thought, believe me.

You're being precious, the TA is being grumpy. Oh dear.

Spinkle that's ridiculously unkind to the OP. The comments were slightly more serious than being a little grumpy!

I have worked as a TA.

Yes you meet all sorts in life, but the comments as described by the OP are unacceptable coming from someone working in a professional capacity with children.

If you are working in a school I would suggest that perhaps you consider a different job if you can't see why this is wrong.

Thankfully your attitude certainly doesn't reflect the attitudes of any of the many teachers I have worked with, have as family and also friends (except perhaps the one I mentioned above, but IMO she shouln't have been there either).

Sorry, do not have time to answer you as am
too busy sharpening pointy things to terrorise small children with planning.

Spinkle, really you need to consider a change of career or more sleep. Because obviously something is making you very grumpy. The kids in your class must be turning cartwheels of joy with you in charge...

Funny you should mention sleep.

No, I don't get much of it since I have a kid with additional needs with a much disturbed sleep pattern.

Sleep, in my case, is a luxury.

Whether my class 'turn cartwheels' or not I do not know (since we are not allowed to teach them for H&S reasons). But, please be assured I am a complete joy and a ray of sunshine at school, lest some MNetter come on here and biatch about me....

My own child just began year 2 and told me that her teacher has no Mummy as she died....there does come a point where we can't cushion them anymore as they will hear things we would never say to them....it''s tough but you sound on the ball.

I think my original post was waffly and unclear,so to hopefully explain it better-my dd has been at school for two years,she was generally happy in reception,no concerns at any point,but around the time she started full time last term ,her favourite friend moved away and she came down (unusually )with a really nasty virus that meant she missed two weeks of school and was still tired and not quite right when she went back (GP thought also possibly anaemic)
At this time she had an induction morning with her new teacher,who is great but older and more old fashioned and stricter than her reception teachers.DD was rather scared of her and then distraught at leaving her reception teacher who she adored,and who she hadn't really thought about leaving as she was off school ill for much of the last weeks of term.
She then spent the Summer holiday very very upset and insisting she would not return to school,I think she thought that the new teacher was somehow taking her away from the old one.
after weeks and weeks of sobbing at night etc,we called the head to ask advice to avoid a nightmareish start to term,and agreed to meet up one on one with the new teacher before term started.This went really well as the teacher has decades of experience and is a kind and sympathetic person.However DD still found the shift to year one and full time really hard.She misses her sister who she is really close to,she says she hates the fact that she is away from me for more of the time than she is with me,and she found the new system at lunchtime very hard,partly because she was on a table with an older child who has behavioural problems (not child's fault)that meant sometimes DD got sprayed with food etc.
We then talked to the head who had asked to be updated( DD was crying every morning,and evening)- she put in place several really helpful and thoughtful things that have made a real difference,and DD's teacher also has been encouraging and really keen to help her settle in.However the TA has seemed to resent DD getting any extra attention,and particularly seems to deal very badly when she,or any other child,cries.This has been quite annoying as she knows that DD has been finding it hard ,(and really it has been bad enough that we have been seriously thinking of home-ed.)And all the other staff have been so helpful and positive.DD is getting less stressed and things are slowly improving.She was alone with the TA when the comments were made,and as far as DD is concerned,she thinks that that is why the TA is not very kind,that she is sad at losing her Mummy and Daddy,but to me it feels like my child's head is being messed with,why tell such a small girl that she shouldn't cry because she is lucky to have parents at all?
I am grateful for many of the replies which have given me helpful things to think about and have been so kind.I just want my DD to settle down in school. Home-ed here would be a huge deal as if she wanted to return to school at some point it would be very hard for her Welsh to be up to scratch,we are not fluent at home.

helly, honestly, ignore the peanut gallery. it is straight-up Fucked Up to tell a kid to stop crying for her parents because she is lucky to have parents at all.

what you have to do is ascertain that is was actually said, and if it was, get the TA in a room with someone who can tell her with some authority that saying that sort of thing to children is Just Not On.

you did say ( TA and a helper in the room)..the most importanat thing here is to have an accurate account of what happened that day and if helper was in the room the school need to find out what was said this does seem keep bullyish to me and needs to be taken in hand by th head or class room teacher

Thanks so much Aitch.I went off to bed last night feeling pretty terrible that maybe I was somehow making things worse for Dd, and as though I'd managed through my ineptitude to represent my kind,generous and funny little girl as a whinging overindulged beast! She was really upset by the comment,partly because she felt so sad for Mrs X and partly because she was naturally worried by the thought of small children losing both parents.I can't imagine that this would have been said had the TA not been alone with DD at the time.And then DD was just left to sit alone on the floor in the middle of the room,visibly upset and worried.

tell you what, helly, the teachers on MN sometimes really make me worry for my kids' education. honestly, you'd think they're the only people in the country with a hard job of work. (they're certainly the only ones i can think of with a gazillion weeks off to recover...)

auntloretta there was another woman in the room too when I went in to get DD,but DD was alone with the TA when the comments were made,the other teacher had only just gone in according to DD.Although I suppose she may have not noticed her coming in to the room.

I agree it sounds wierd how you've typed it 'your lucky you have a mum and dad, mine are dead'. It not so bad when you put a 5 year old upset as mum not there into the equation and Ta says 'she'll be here soon' who then asks about TA mum and dad who replies ' Mine died when I was little, your lucky as you still have yours'. Therefore putting the TA in the right and doing what posters have suggested OP and putting a spin on the positive.

That may sound harsh but I too have had problems with DS in school and I've had to take the 'life not fair deal with it approach' (even when I've been annoyed with schools decision) and things have improved 10-fold.

Good Luck

Aitch...ouch! Surely some of the comments from teachers have been supportive?
Helly, people who do not like children should not work with children; we, as teachers, are the adults and have a professional responsibility to behave as such. YANBU.

oh it's not just here, caboodle. it's the whole of mn, hell, it's the whole of life. yes, it's a hard job but really, if it's so tough just change jobs... teachers are such fucking princesses ime.

(you know, and obviously i don't mean all teachers... but as a general rule i don't think that i have ever seen a profession MOAN as much about their jobs as teachers do.

I agree that the intonation and phrasing could change the tone of what she said,I suppose because I have heard her make slightly spiteful comments before,and because she is generally far from warm and confiding,I have trusted my daughters re-telling of the story.(DD is a total pedant,and also wasn't complaining in any way).I imagine if tackled she will say that it was well meant,but I think she is throwing her own issues onto very small children and I also think however well meant it would still be an ill advised and un-professional way to talk to an upset small child. I am all for frankness about death,I take the DDs to funerals and have talked to them honestly about all kinds of sensitive topics,but this just seems far too much personal information that a five year old is bound to find upsetting.

Can you confirm that is a FACT that TA's parents are dead ? (eg via head)

Similarly, can you get helper's version of events ?

I would write briefly to the head.

I am torn between ignoring it for now ,going up to her tomorrow and saying loudly so that the teacher can hear too "I am so sorry to hear that you lost your parents so young,DD was very worried about you after you told her that",or emailing the head.Maybe a watch and wait tactic is best,or a faux innocent comment to her teacher in the manner of "very sad about Mrs X"? DD told DH first, so he may say something.We haven't dicussed it at all infront of her,other than me saying at the time that maybe her parents had in fact died when she was already a grown-up,which Dd seemed to find reassuring.

Whatever the preceding circumstances it is an odd thing to say to a 5 year old.
My grandad died fairly recently and Ds1 - your dd's age - was upset and has made more than a few comments about great grandad dying since. Perhaps fortunately, he has always been aware that great grandad was very very old, and didn't seem to have started worrying about losing any less ancient relatives. However he has also talked a lot more since my grandfather died about his grandma who died when he was 2 (he remembers her because we knew she was dying for his entire life and so spent about every other weekend there for ages - he was only grandchild). I think a bright 5 year old could easily be upset by the idea of a parent dying and could worry about it a lot - would be quite cross if anyone said that to ds1 at the minute.
I wouldn't mention it - it is a difficult thing to do appropriately without having been there. Best probably to continue to reassure dd about her nice teacher, while being confident that the school have already shown they can help when there is a problem.