to feel that the Government are doing an excellent job

[JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar]

in getting lower income mothers to snipe at wealthier ones. And vice versa.

In getting WOHMs to snipe at SAHMs (like they needed help). And again, vice versa.

And in getting parents of all incomes to seeth with resentment at the elderly.

I'm sure there are some more successes. Feel free to add some...

Well, the Tories can always claim to be the first party to truly unite the nation..

...United in hate for the Tories!

I think the Labour party did a staggeringly, unhelpful job in getting relatively wealthy families to think they were automatically entitled to financial help in the first place. Anyone with a good job paying 40% tax & sniping at having to lose a few quidis guilty of sour grapes, and that's their problem - not the government's.

YEP. YANBU

they are causing division and making so called 'middle earners' look down on those who are genuinely in need of benefits. Breeding a 'well if I can work and have to give up my benefits like working tax credits and child benefits then why can't those scroungers'.

they know exactly what they are doing :(

i agree Chil
i remember being quite shocked when i first received child benefit. dh and me together both ft working were earning over £100k

but of course now i am not working and am mightily pissed off we are losing it!

you know what they say "you don't miss what you never had" so that in reverse is why we're suffering now. which makes no sense at all but ykwim

Chil, you can have a good job, be paying 40% tax and not be well off. It rather depends on how many children you have, mortgage/travel costs etc. A family with one child, low mortgage etc would arguably need CB less than someone with 4 children, higher mortgage.Yet both will lose out under new rules.

I will lose mine. On paper my DH earns a decent salary but it doesn't go far when you have a big family. My CB gets spent on food.

Yeah although Dueling, optimistically, cutting the benefit of the (relatively) well-off, well-educated and (as we have seen in the last 24hrs) very politically vocal people first might backfire, as these people might now remain vocal and outraged as benefits are cut to those on lower earnings (and who historically might not be so vocal or so politically powerful) later on.

LOL - having just sent vitriollic emails to as many MPs as I could find. Thank you for this spin on it

Personally don't mind the cut, IF it was fair eg any family with an income of over £44,000 pa. It will hurt us financially (divorce would be the sensible financial option for us) but I would rather see the money spent on supporting vulnerable people like children who are or need to be cared for or disabled individuals...and I could do quite well in a divorce ...

I am seething at the stupidity of a PRIME MINISTER who claims that the way these cuts are being administered is FAIR...and worried that he cannot understand basic dictionary definitions (FAIR: unbiased and reasonable according to the Collins Gem Dictionary...Cuts administered in this manner - v. v. unfair to some families)

Also a Chancellor who apparently doesn't understand net vs gross income (so apparently does not understand basic taxation principles, oh shit dear he's in charge of the economy...)

I am annoyed that politicians think they can just change their minds withour explaining their actions to the general public.

Infuriated that they think people are stupid enough to swallow that the WAY this will be administered is fair..

I am confused by the silent minority within the government of the lib dems...

Can't wait to see who will qualify for the winter fuel allowance and free bus passes - only elderly people on over £44,000 pa??

Quodlibet - Hope so. Though I am surprised and dismayed by the comments people I know have made in the lst 24 hours. Some of my closest family and friends have been agreeing with the tories and are not realising that they are being led down a path of division and scorn :( It's really making me feel quite ranty.

I think they are doing a great job at making everyone forget that the banks are mainly to blame for this mess. The Tory message that this crisis is all down to Labour has been staggeringly successful.

Yes Labour made mistakes but nobody seems to think of what the bankers did anymore.

"On paper my DH earns a decent salary but it doesn't go far when you have a big family. "

I'm fed up with this argument, frankly. Never mind 'on paper'... a decent salary is a decent salary. People who choose to have a big family, live in an expensive area and spend a lot of money getting to work and back could have made different decisions in the past and will have to make adjustments going forward.

What's happening here is that a lot of people thought they would be immune from the effect of the cuts, laughed off the concept of 'we're all going to suffer' and thought that it would only happen to someone else. This is the upshot of 13 years of Labour mismanagement. I'm reserving my anger for them.

Maybe I am thick, but I don't see why it is so hard for a govt to establish what income a family has. They already know what we earn, because we are paying tax. They already know who is getting CB and for how many children, because they are paying it and have the records. I don't see why they would need to means test the entire country as has been stated by the PM wanker in charge.

I saw his interview with the BBC this morning and he implied that to cut CB a different way, they would have to means test people earning upto £70,000 (shock horror) as well as the poor. God forbid the wealthy should have the govt nosy into their financial business. That joy seems to be reserved for the poor unimportant.

can someone explain why this all can't be done electronically via our tax returns

• this is what i earn x
• this is how many children i have x
• this is my childcare bill x
• this is my charitable contributions x
• this is my pension payments x

why would that be so difficult?

Agree with Chil1234 re the finances.

i think the media has done an excellent job of stirring the hornet's nest. there were debates on mumsnet about this before it was announced and i seem to recall most people agreeing it should be scrapped for high earners.

according to channel 4, 85% of families aren't affected at all.

agree with chil1234 that decisions are made about size of families, work, etc. and those decisions really shouldn't rely on state handouts.

Chil,you say 'a decent salary is a decent salary', but it's not that simple.

I had to buy a house as I can't have social housing. Fair enough, but I had no control over house prices. I bought the cheapest one in my area that had enough room (just) to house my family. They don't all have their own bedrooms, so our house is by no means big and extravagant. Nevertheless, it costs a lot of money out of our income. Plus the insurance to cover us if my DH loses his job.
This happened a couple of years ago because of the economic situation. I can't control council tax or the cost of feeding/clothing my children.

People can't always choose where they work and often can't control where they live. Travel costs are what they are. I'm sure lots of people would love to live within easy travelling distance of their work, but don't have the option.

It is ridiculous to say we should have made different decisions earlier in life. I don't have a crystal ball and couldn't predict my DHs employer going into administration. It's also difficult to make choices when the goalposts are moved.

That's just not the case Chil... People's circumstances can vary hugely and lots of families have outgoings that others simply wont have ..There's the area you live in for example, perhaps medical care that is not covered on the NHS and also the possibility that people's circumstances are changing at the moment - sometimes overnight and quite dramatically.

What about people who have to live in the SE or close to London ? If they didn't they wouldn't be able to work ..

CB is not a govt hand out. It was a tax relief to compensat families for the additional costs of raising children (these would be the children that the country is relying on to pay tax and support our ageing population/pay for our services).
It's our money, not the governments!

"and i seem to recall most people agreeing it should be scrapped for high earners."

I have no problem with this at all... but when they are scapping it for a family with an income of £44k but not for a family with a combined income of £80k then it is fundamentally flawe, no?

i agree they have messed up with the details.

I agree with you Dueling. The govt is employing the old strategy of divide and rule.

chil123 - why do you have such a hard time with people who are financially successful? They are contributing to the benefit bill through their taxes.

Different people do make different choices - that's not a bad thing.

There is a great deal of support on mn from these overpaid whingers (I think that's your view) for giving support to less well off people and supporting FAIRNESS in the benefit system.

Most people are upset at the unfairness of the implementation of the CB cut, and worried about the financial impact it will have on their families, just as people who get benefits are worried about how cuts will affect their families.

We are ALL worried.

Lots of peole make choices with their lives including some people who continue to receive benefits when, in reality, they could replace their benefit dependancy with working.

Lots of people choose to invest their outrageuosly large salaries in HUGE mortgages as they provide for thier families.

Just because an individual has decided to be financially successful with their life and support their family financially doesn't mean they can be reviled, equally because someone has made (or been forced to make) different choices and become dependant on benefit doesn't mean they can be reviled.

The press on these stories is very misleading - people are upset about the child benefit because families across the nation have come to, rightly or wrongly, rely on it. It makes the difference in our house to being able to stay in the black every month.

EVERYONE is really worried about the cuts because they are going to be brutal.

Turning this into a devisive, hatred fueled issue will help no-one.

There is nothing wrong with choosing to earn a lot of money and supporting your family.

I have emailed my MP about exactly this kind of reaction.. decisions like these set up barriers between people on differing income levels and that is completely unhelpful and pointless..

Life is hard for everyone at the moment ( well for 95% of the population disregarding footballers and the like..)
and it really doesn't help to set us all at one another's throats

Those people on here who are being vindictive towards people on salaries higher than theirs would do well to remember that we didn't all walk into these salaries at 16 or 18 .. Indeed, when we had our first child we managed to live, pay a mortgage and raise my ds and pay travel to work on a household income of 10,000 pounds .. there were no CTF's, HIP grants or tax credits back then either - we were completely on our own and we coped - don't get nasty with people who have worked their way up - most people have done their share of struggling at some point - I don't understand why cant people have a bit of compassion ?

Nobody has to live in a particular place. Jobs exist country-wide. Circumstances always change & vary and people always have to adapt & make decisions according to those circumstances. 'Shit happens' besides. But if two families earn £50k... one spending every dime and the other having a few quid to spare at the end of the month... why should the one that has spent up expect to get more? And why should the family earning £20k see their tax being used for that purpose?

I must admit to a wry smile at the sniping now people are actually losing money.

When the tax went up from 40 -50% for some of us - there was so much schadenfrude (sp) and folks telling us we could well afford it. That we should be jolly well hand it over and stop griping.

Now those on forty grand are losing a few quid, they're not so happy to hand it over themselves.

The truth is no one likes losing money.