to feel that the Government are doing an excellent job

[JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar]

in getting lower income mothers to snipe at wealthier ones. And vice versa.

In getting WOHMs to snipe at SAHMs (like they needed help). And again, vice versa.

And in getting parents of all incomes to seeth with resentment at the elderly.

I'm sure there are some more successes. Feel free to add some...

LadyGaGa has posted this already on the Times thread, but I think it's worth sharing again, for those that missed it.

I wonder which division the Government are going to create next?

Also - bear in mind that the people earning £44K are being hit twice. Once with working tax credits and again with Child benefit, while those on a combined income of £70K ish are not!

Is it really fair to make these 'middle income' people pay more tax than other couples earning more?

Ah but litchick seriously, the 50% tax rate applies to those earning £150,000 or more deosn't it? Plus it only effects about 300,000 people out of 29 million tax payers.

Chil1234, you could be me. Agree 100%, and fed up of hearing people who 'on paper' are way better off than me whinging about the lifestyle they chose and if circumstances have changed, continue to choose. Try living on half of what you earn and then see what choices you have.

Lol at having 3 children being something you might be able to choose not to continue with :D

Dueling, agree totally. Cap CB based on total household income, not on individual earnings.

ready and chil .. you really have no idea do you ?
circumstances are changing so fast at the moment that people cant always help themselves.

I know several families who have lost very well paid jobs who had
outgoings which were easily manageable until they got made redundant at the start of this recession .. they cannot sell their houses - they would in a heartbeat of they could - its not always that simple FGS!!

and as for no-one having to live anywhere specific thats rubbish too.. if you have trained for specific careers then there are definitely areas in the country that simply do not have those jobs .. People who are specialised in certain areas have to be able to get into London for example - my husband is one of only twenty people in the UK who do his particular job - hardly possible for us to relocate to Wigan or somewhere cheaper than the SE ..
If only things were as simple as you seem to think ...

@DuellingFanjo.... You're right and E-Bay won't let you sell any of the little buggers either. :) But if having three children was a conscious decision rather than something accidental you've presumably factored in that they're going to cost you over time... bigger family car, more expensive holidays, university fees, etc., etc. Now everyone's quick to say that people on benefits shouldn't be popping out children and expecting others to pay for them... and neither should people who are, relatively speaking, well-off.

The CB change (like the CTC change) will mean I'm worse off because I'm a single parent with a good income. I'd much rather keep my £20/week than give it up because, like everyone else, I'm a selfish git. But I don't think the 'if I'm suffering so should the poor, the elderly and the disabled' is a worthy attitude ... we should be above that.

Therein lies the rub, Chil.

The welfare state was set up as a safety measure for hardworking people who found themselves falling on hard times.
I don't see anyone begrudging them help when needed.

However the rest of us should be expected to plan accordingly...and not on the basis that certain benefits will always be available.

For example I am astounded at anyone having more children in the last twelve months if they know they can only afford it with tax credits. Surely you could see they were going to be reduced/removed?

I think that link I posted (and thanks again to LadyGaGa for posting it originally) sums up why I'm so worried about this, and why I think we're missing the point somewhat in arguing about who should get CB, what choices we should have made and so on.

The last paragraph in particular sums it up sp well. Linking CB to income is "the opening salvo in the coalition's war on the universal welfare state". If we care about the welfare state at all, we should be worried about this. All this bickering is providing a lovely smokescreen, imo.

Ultimately it will be the poor who suffer - no matter what the Tories say about the fairness of low earners subsidising higher earners' latte habit.

Chil, when I had my children, I did know what it was going to cost me to raise them. This is why my DH works as hard as he does. He pays a lot of tax and to take CB is to effectively make him pay more tax, which we simply can't afford. I would be in favour of seeing CB be returned to the tax relief that it was initially. That way what people receive would be more in proportion to what they have paid.

Ready,if I had to live on half our income, I would be up shit creek. The house would be repossessed for a start and I would have to hope that the council housed us. I would probably then be in the position of claiming Housing/Council tax benefit and tax credits. I'm not actually sure if I would end up worse off overall,cos it's my mortgage which is the killer but would sooner not have to claim benefits or hope for the best wrt council housing. I would just like to not be penalised either.

I live in Wales btw, so not as expensive as the SE, but still not cheap. House prices went up everywhere, so if not in social housing, people really did have little choice but to buy a house if they wanted to put a roof over their childrens heads.

it's divide and rule isn't it?
keeps everyone busy squabbling about who's getting what while the tories dismantle the welfare state bit by bit, starting with taking a sledgehammer to the priniciple of universal benefits. Nice one Gideon. who knows, they've made CB so unfair maybe it'll be easier to just do away with it altogether, hmm?
all to save a poxy 1bn

meanwhile I am sitting here feeling guilty for having a fucking job

dear god i hate the tories

I'm being thick, yangymac, what do you mean? :)

divide and conquer- the patriarchy tory's
WMD against women

YANBU YANBU YANBU

OP i SO agree with you.

The govt are stirring us all up to have a go at each other so we all forget that it was the banks who got us into this mess in the first place - and I wonder what party the fat cat investment bankers vote for hmmmm?

ps the Tories were happy to pay CB to HRTs in their last govt so dont blame this on Labour.

I'm pretty sure I saw a clip on TV this morning of Cameron, prior to the election, promising to keep CB.

I think that if govts break their pre election promises that should count as breach of contract/fraud and they should be sacked immediately and a new election called!

Admittedly, we would always be voting, given the amount of lies governments tell, but perhaps it would act ultimately to promote some honesty amongst politicians.

So Chil, do you think all the nurses, teachers etc should move out of the (expensive) cities they live and work in, to live somewhere cheaper? Soon to be followed by the rest of the population as they don't want to live somewhere with no public sector workers?
Just a city full of bankers.. what a thought.

Oh yes get us all fighting amongst ourselves so we don't notice what they are doing!

Oh shock and horridness I find myself cheering wholeheratedly for Chil1234