to think it's not ok wear an earring to school if the school doesn't allow earrings?

[Maylee]

Ok, so I don't think I'm being a judgey-pants on this ocassion but would be grateful for any insight from you all (or to be told that I'm being entirely unreasonable and judgey).

DS has just started reception and uniform policy is very clear - grey trousers, white shirts, no earrings or jewellry (applies to boys and girls). But there is this one boy in DS's class who comes to school with black jeans on and an earring in one ear.

Now, to be perfectly frank I do not see any reason why a 4 year old boy needs an earring but each to their own......

My problem is that his parents are blatantly violating the school's policy on uniform. So he is learning that it is ok to disobey the intructions given by the teachers and school. I mean, there is of course a time and a place for rsging against the machine but not at 4 years old surely?

As far as I'm aware there are no cultural, religious or health reasons which require this child to have an earring during school hours.

It's none of my business of course but just wanted to vent a bit here (as I would never say anything to this boy's mum!)and check whether I'm BU or judgey?

Hmm, well I will put my hand up and say that I only respect rules that are there for a good reason. I get the principle of uniform, I don't get 7 yr olds in ties. I get everyone in the same colour sweatshirt, I don't get everyone in a £15 regulation acrylic jumper. I get no earrings because if they catch on something it can be very nasty.

I also have far more respect for rules that apply across the board. So no ties acceptable for male staff, no ties acceptable for dc. Jeans acceptable for staff, jeans acceptable for dc. Smart trousers only for dc, smart trousers only for staff. That way the school really does have its common identity, which is what uniform is about, rather than a 'them and us' thing which is more often the case.

I've never signed a home/school agreement, but neither have any of my dc been in trouble at school. This is because I don't expect the school to do my job for me, but I'm not going to sign up to 'supporting the school in all its policies' either. And I don't expect my dc to obey 'school rules' on hitting, scratching, pinching and throttling, because I expect them not to hit, scratch, kick and pinch, not to mention exclude, name-call, tease and bully because they know that it is wrong, not because they might get their name in the Behaviour Book.

The danger is IMO that if we get so hung up on rules and regulations that breaking a rule on uniform gets a harsher reaction than casually bullying a kid in the playground, and so the really vital stuff that needs to be taken on board about not hurting others ends up getting lost amongst all the other rules about lunch boxes and sock colour. At our dc's school pupils have already got the idea that so long as the teachers are happy with them then they can be as foul as they like to each other.

And I still don't get why our dc's school purposely promotes the notion that uniform improves self-esteem. Right, so self-esteem is all about how you look, is it?

Sounds as if your school has an unfortunate set of approaches - what a shame for you.

When I was at school ANY item of clothing/ jewellery that flouted the rules was immediately confiscated and replaced with something from the lost property bin until the parents bought the correct item of uniform. I would expect nothing less in this situation.

If parents cannot afford new uniform (many cannot), there are second hand options. When you choose a school for your child that has an obvious uniform, and rules around uniform, it is your duty to ensure they comply. If you disagree with uniform do not pick a school that has one. Pretty simple.

For those who think it is a disgrace the rules do not apply to everyone, this isn't some crazy communist state! Nowhere in modern society does a set of rules apply blindly across the board. Police wear uniform, the public do not. Hospital workers wear uniform, patients do not...you don't see them crying about the unfairness of it. If you voluntarily attend an institution with uniform you cannot then complain about having to wear one.

I'd also like to know what is so awful about uniform, it puts all the children on an equal footing, regardless of how cool their weekend trainers or man utd kit might be, at school you're all starting at the same level...removing competition and judgement of what people wear. You're instantly recognisable outside of school as a representative of it...it teaches you to act as a member of a community...so good behaviour reflects wonderfully on a school, bad behavious results in the headmaster getting a phone call that one of "his kids" was messing around in public.

My basic point is you can choose between uniformed and non uniformed schools. Protesting by breaking a uniform rule is plain ridiculous. Send them elsewhere.

I don't care if that is judgey. I'm a snob.

Well said Coral.

spiritmum - I don't know if this is the case but I would think that "uniform promotes self esteem" because it is all the same, i.e. that DC from poorer backgrounds wear pretty much the same clothes as those from really wealthy backgrounds, rather than having the richer kids coming in to school in new designer gear while the poorer ones can only manage charity shop clothes. Everyone wearing the same creates a level playing field and is designed to remove the shallow aspect of who has the best clothes, I believe.

Completely agree Coral.

Like I said in my OP, there is a time and a place to "rage against the machine". I have what one might consider an old-fashioned view of school. It should be a place where children learn not only academic lessons, but about good behaviour, discipline and propriety (and these lessons should be reinforced by parents at home).

I don't mind that people might disagree or think I'm being judgey (I probably am) but I absolutely refute that this is a class debate or issue. I am working class and I grew up amongst working class communities. Maybe because of that, I feel strongly about the need to give my child the best possible start to life. And in my mind, that means being equipped to learn - being part of a learning community, respecting teachers and (importantly) gaining respect back from those teachers and others around him.

Working class people aren't stupid (and that's another reason why I maintain this isn't me taking issue with "commoners"). The parents of this boy know that the earring is against the rules. My honest question is - what is then the motivation behind breaking those rules?

Thumbwitch, sorry, there is a bit more back story that I didn't include - the uniform has just been changed (during a financial crisis - great) from sweatshirt and polo shirt to formal shirt, jumper (for KS1) and tie (for KS2) on the basis that looking smarter will 'improve self-esteem'. They looked smart before but they also looked comfortable.

Oh, and there's a new PE uniform, too. Used to be plain white t-shirt, now we have to buy an expensive printed one. And the new jumper is costlier than the old sweatshirt. So if anything it is more discriminating than the old.

But that wasn't obvious from my post, I know.

:) - yes, that does put rather a different spin on things, spiritmum! I can see the school's point but their timing is shite and it does seem unnecessary to up the ante if they already looked smart.

Oh I guess I too ought to point out, my argument is not a class based one. My parents were working class, my school was a heavily working class attended state school (now it has become one of those only wealthy parents use as they bought up all the housing in the catchment area)...rules teach you about right and wrong, what flaming harm will come to the child mentioned in the OP if he -god forbid- has to remove his earring for 5 out of 7 days?! Might he learn less? Ridiculous. If it means the other 28 kids in his class dont all go home asking mum why they cant have an earring it can only be a good thing. In a society where we try to avoid anything that makes a child self concious about their appearance, how can we support the decision of a parent who will ultimately make all the other kids think "i'm not as cool as him".

Spiritmum that sounds unfortunate, perhaps the school could offer a 6month transition period so people can gradually switch from old to new uniform? Seems unreasonable to expect parents to shell out for entirely new uniforms all in one go.

Even my childrens private school are having a transition period due to the introduction of a new uniform and a change of school name in juniors.

We don't have to replace anything until it is worn out or grown out of and the new uniform is in most cases cheaper than the old.

No, all new uniform for the whole school had to be worn when they went back in Sept. Lots of threatening letters stating new uniform 'must' be worn with 'ties up to the neck' etc, none mentioning of course that uniform is not legally enforcable at this age.

And dd1 has three unworn sweatshirts that I'd bought big and that she'll never use.

The school even refused to collect them for a school in Africa because they had the school badge on them

I've gone along with it for the sake of my dc because I know if I make an issue out of it they will be the ones to bear the brunt of it, not me. I did consider putting in a complaint to the governors but again I am concerned for how it might impact on the dc if we become the Difficult Family.

That is totally out of order spiritmum.

I like a smart uniform, the dc have ties from reception on elastic and they look cute but I woud be seething in that situation. Mind you there are a few state schools near to me (mostly Catholic) that have ties in nursery which I do think is a bit OTT.

spiritmum, that is really quite shocking. Can't imagine what they were thinking, unless one of the governors just happens to own a school uniform shop...

As for the whole uniform for staff thing. No - I'm not a child, I'm an adult and I think that needs acceptance. I dress smartly for school, I don't wear earrings at all for (being honest - I never have a pair of matching backs for them I've not lost) and necklaces and accessories I wear are generally cheap and cheerful (being honest - the accessorizing outfits thing runs out of steam about the second week in September), but that's about the end of it. Considering my usual teacher uniform is a blouse, cheapo jumper (for anything nice met a sticky glittery end long ago), and black trousers with as many pockets as possible - I'm pretty much in school uniform anyway!

I go in one school where the head wears full school uniform - down to the adult sized school sweatshirt and fleece, and it's just more than a bit creepy.

Yes, it is shocking, but if I post about it or even think about it any more I'll end up like Herbert Lom in The Pink Panther.

Emptyshell, agree that an adult dressed in proper school uniform is creepy to say the least.