to believe some if not all of the 9/11 conspiracy theories

[mrsunreasonable]

NOTE: This is not meant to be offensive and if you suffered as a result of 9/11 you have my deepest sympathies it was a terrible event however it was caused.

Having watched a few documentaries on the conspiracy theories I am partially if not completely convinced all was not as it seemed. The fact that many witnesses that saw/heard things that didn't tie in with the official version have since died in suspicious circumstances doesn't help!

Snorbs, that's nice of you. Actually in your explanations you were very interesting and generous. Thanks for saying you didn't mean to accuse people here of racism but some of the generators of such theories.

You think I'm angry? You think this is 'abusive'? LOL!

Really, Apple, don't flatter yourself. It's obvious you haven't been here long.

At any rate, here clicks my imaginary iggy button again.

Talk to the hand now.

SGB, you're on form here! :) :o

Right, that's lovely.

Expat, I know I have some issues; most people do. It's not unusual; if I am hurting people because of those issues then please let me know, otherwise yes, keep away if you prefer.

You have always, always managed to annoy me, as well, for the several years I have been here - though I'm sure that isn't due to your own 'issues', probably just mine, and I have never, ever thought it appropriate to mention it to you, because that would be hurtful.

So I would be grateful if you would indeed do as you suggest and avoid speaking to me where possible. I think it would make our lives easier.

Snorbs - I don't think you said anything offensive. But good of you to clarify.

'Talk to the hand'?!?

LOL!! Do people really say that now?

thought you were ignoring me, FA?

hums theme song from 'one flew over the cuckoo's nest' . . .

Yes, you've been abusive, and apart from you there's been masses of abuse from others defending the official line too on this thread. Much more from others than you, but you have been called people stupid and nuts and that kind of thing.

I interpreted the abuse, a lot of wtf-ing and so on as anger. It would indicate anger for a lot of people -- perhaps not you.

You've "personal" approach has been inconsistent, too, saying it's massively offensive and then making jokes about 7/7. I don't know.

Oh stop it and go away.

Not you, Apple. You are very nice

Any more really rude and shocking words you'd like to put out there, SGB? Appletrees doesn't deserve that comment and neither do I.

Just catching up on this, think I may have walked into the middle of a domestic, not sure? will go and make a cup of tea and leave it for half an hour, maybe just say something about FA, her posts are always well thought out and interesting, she comes across as 100% genuine and seems like a really nice person - these qualites shine out from all her posts, she's A1.

Daftpunk, that's really, really very lovely of you.

I'm sure I don't deserve it, though it means a lot that you said it. Thanks

Fwiw I think you've been great lately and I am sorry I got off on the wrong foot with you.

SGB dear me. There's that little fleckle of spit again.

Apple, I can just imagine SGB aged 75, wearing loads too much make up and a little wooly hat, and whacking everyone with her walking stick.

I can't help being a bit fond of her though.

Who says things like "try not to be a fuckwit" to random people on the internet? It's odd.

rofl @ sgb

I know. I did report it as a personal attack, don't know if they will bother to take it down though.

Don't take it seriously, Apple, she's just trying to be witty.

oOh and someone even laughed! Hilarious, clearly.

I don't think there is necessarily anything racist about the conspiracy theorists (except perhaps for the ones who are convinced that it was all carried out by Mossad).

There was some very dodgy stuff coming out of the Project for the New American Century which was at the heart of the Bush administration (its signatories included Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Jeb Bush etc). It's stated mission was to "rally support for American global leadership" and it promoted "a foreign policy that boldly and purposefully promotes American principles abroad".

Particularly unfortunate was a PNAC report from September 2000 entitled "Rebuilding America's Defences" in which it was stated that the process of achieving their aims was likely to be extremely slow, unless there was "some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor".

Of course it is a huge and implausible leap from there to say that the PNAC or Bush administration somehow engineered the attacks that followed a year later, but not so much of a leap to observe that they may have used the attacks as "a new Pearl Harbor" to put their foreign policy ideals into action. And of course this sort of thing is perfect fuel for conspiracy theorists.

I use the documentaries on 9/11 conspiracies with my students - as examples of propaganda and the dangers of "google research"!

These theories are BS, supported by misquotes, quotes out of context, use of unqualified 'experts' and outright lies (see especially all the 'evidence' that supports the theory that United 93 was not the plane that was downed outside Washington).

For a detailed outline of the real, hard evidence and a refutation of the myths perpetuated by 'documentaries' like Loose Change, see here and here

My favourite example of the blatant disrespect for the truth (and for the victims of 9/11) that appears in the film Loose Change is this: the coroner who attended the site of the downed United 93 flight said "There were no bodies, only parts of bodies." This was quoted in Loose Change as "There were no bodies." and cited as 'proof' that the plane downed outside Washington was not United 93, but a drone. Disgusting.

"However considering you are friends with these people in MI5 and so on, what strikes me is that were they actually to share the real goings on with you, they would probably have to kill you, and they don't want to have to do that "

My point Flight (and I know you were being tongue in cheek) wasn't that I had any inside knowledge (they were colleagues of my ex-DP in most cases and in one a family member who would certainly have shared with me what he knew but he knew nothing so not relevant) but that my knowledge of how things work in the Uk made me very sceptical that such a huge conspiracy which would have involved many, many people in mulitple locations for the slightly dubious aim of getting a base in central Asia (I still contend that there were easier and cheaper ways to do this) has not been rumbled despite the media spotlight on the events in question.

How rude to say someone has 'issues' in order to denigrate their opinions.

People may have differing opinions on issues which will get heated, but that's quite close to a personal attack, imo. Which is not allowed on MN.

Kewcumber, I don't think anyone can seriously believe that 9/11 was orchestrated by the US, the issue is more what expansionists opportunities have been seized following the events.

I can't really put it better than Josephinedrouhin:

"Of course it is a huge and implausible leap from there to say that the PNAC or Bush administration somehow engineered the attacks that followed a year later, but not so much of a leap to observe that they may have used the attacks as "a new Pearl Harbor" to put their foreign policy ideals into action. And of course this sort of thing is perfect fuel for conspiracy theorists"

Opportunitically using the events following 911 is not even close to being a conspiracy theary though and yes plenty of people do seriously think teh US actively colluded in the events of 9/11