to believe some if not all of the 9/11 conspiracy theories

[mrsunreasonable]

NOTE: This is not meant to be offensive and if you suffered as a result of 9/11 you have my deepest sympathies it was a terrible event however it was caused.

Having watched a few documentaries on the conspiracy theories I am partially if not completely convinced all was not as it seemed. The fact that many witnesses that saw/heard things that didn't tie in with the official version have since died in suspicious circumstances doesn't help!

Yeah dwarf rates should be death rates

Thank-you htc

Yeah dwarf rates should be death rates

Thank-you htc

And for that too.

haha - bloody phones ;)

Honestly, buy some tinfoil NOW and fashion yourself a neat hat from it. Because the illuminati ARE among as and they want to eat your left kidney and replace your children's back teeth with secret communication devices. They killed Jade Goody just to have a ritual sacrifice that would bring the Deity of Stupid Bucketheads back to life.

You're right in that it does tend to be right-wing nutjobs who are the main creators of the conspiracy theories. Which is odd when you think about it. The right-wing in the US is very much of the opinion that Government is inefficient and corrupt and incompetent and that things would be much better if The People were allowed to just get on with things.

Yet, at the same time, they endow this seemingly ciminally incompetent Government with the ability to pull off one of the most shocking, unexpected and meticulously executed attacks since, well, ever. And for all the actors in that conspiracy to then remain absolutely silent ever since.

I really do think a lot of it comes down to racism. These right-wing nutjobs simply cannot believe that a small bunch of (in their eyes) "towel-heads" could possibly do something so devastating and so world-changing.

These are the sorts of comments I suppose I mean. It's not like there's no evidence ever of large scale corporate conspiracy and government coverups. But if you suggest something similar could happen again you're a right wing nutjob. It's weird and simply doesn't make sense.

Whatever the truth of 9/11 it gave the USA a reason to blunder into the Middle East and start not one but two wars (along with the UK poodles) and set up bases to protect future oil supplies.

As for the 3500 plus people who were killed in 9/11 it was tragic as was the USA (along with the UK poodle) killing many, many, many times that amount of civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq but that dosent register on Fox News as an Middle East life is worth far less that a Yank.

"Kewcumber that all comes under the heading "you don't seriously think..."" no it comes under the heading "This is my very humble opinion"

I have no problem beleiving that governments try to manipulate and deceive and often succeed. In my very humble experience of the individuals involved (not those at the top but all those required to pull of this kind of sophisticated scam) they are unlikley to persuade enough people to be a party to killing thousands of innnocent compatriots for no reward and to keep quiet about it for a very long time and not cock it up is extremely unlikely.

I also have yet to be convinced what the pay off for the BUsh administration was - bombing the shit out of Kandahar didnt promote US interests, didn't secure any oil pipelines etc (happy to be informed otherwise).

Corporations I have less of a problme believing in involvement in plots to further teh corporate interests. They have significant personal financial interest ususally, it often involves far fewer people and they tend to have better brainpower involved. And still someone always blabs eventually.

No problem with thumbing my nose at authority and being sceptial - really didn;t make very good officers wife potential at all! But conjuring up elaborate conspiracy theories that don;t hold water when (just sometimes) the obvious answer is in all probability the real answer.

"Sneering is cowardly." - I hope thats not addressed at me. Not agreeing with a conspiracy doesn't make me either sneering or cowardly - it makes me sceptical, just sceptical of differnet things to you with (if we are all honest) more evidence on which to base my scepticism than the conspiracy theorists.

If in 10 years time the truth is revealed and it is discovered that the BUsh administration blew up the WTC and fired a missle at the Pentagon because... (well no-ones put forward a convincing becasue at the moment so we'll leave that blank for now) then I'll eat my words. But in teh meantime I'll stick to my view if its all teh same to you.

Thank you newvwave.

CD

Thanks for your thanks but why ?

And this racism accusation. It's new to me.. what's it supposed to do, frighten people off asking questions?

Just to clarify the racism angle of 9/11 conspiracy theories .. you think people do not accept the obl version becoause to consider an Arab capable of high quality organisational skill is less bearable than blaming the same person for an atrocity?

That's awfully contrivEd. Where else is racism the heart of such ideas? corporate conspiracy theory? vaccines? Or is it just this one?

Appletrees - what precedent is there for a government murdering a significant number of it's own civilians in order to acheive, um, some sort of goal?

This isn't in the same league as an "Oh god, we screwed up, we can't let this come out" cover-up.

NB - Other than totalitarian regimes where it's standard practice obv.

Appletrees, accusations of racism,Islamophobia etc are usually a way of saying "I dont like what you are saying"

Appletrees - yes I think a lot of Americans think that. The same ones that think Obama is a Muslim.

newwave, for putting across your view, which I happen to share entirely.

"it gave the USA a reason to blunder into the Middle East" - no it didn;t. Afghanistan is not in the middle East but in central Asia (quite a long way away) and has infinitesimally small oil reserves.

Lets be honest Bush didn;t need much justification to invade Iraq, he hardly needed to blow the shit out of a pile of americans to do it and it wasn't even close to being the main reason to rationalise the invasion - it was the development of WMD's.

If you want to pronounce about the evils of governments and conspiracies tehn why don;t consiracy theorists focus on that?

Oh that would be because it has been comprehensively covered by reputable investigative journalists and just involved a straighforward pack of lies so nothing like as interesting.

newwave - I DON'T generally like what racists and Islamophobes say though...

TCNY, neither do I but the accusation is often used as an attempt to shut down debate.

agree with newwave. TheCoalition have you heard any of the conspiracy theorists? they are not racist

There are historians who say that the US knew about Pearl Harbour beforehand and let it go ahead, in order to convince the people to join the war

Coalition: you labour under the misapprehension that governments actually give a shit. They really don't. Not about their servicemen and women, civilians killed, large scale humanitarian suffering, nothing. They really don't, except for how it sells and, following from that, their own protection. Much in the way that corporations don't care about their customers. I mean, a few individuals might, a bit. But on the whole not at all.

Can you try to remember also that I don't believe this particular set of ideas. I think maybe there was a cover up of some elements but no conspiracy.

However, I suppose in relation to your question, I can think of the great war and its cannon fodder, gulf war syndrome victims, and, to be honest, the Iraq war, this one. (Not nec the afghan conflict)

None of that is my point. My point is, why has it suddenly become stupid and thick and insane and mad to point out anomalies. Somuch so that others think they can abuse with impunity.

At least we now have a Government who is honest about not giving a shit for anyone but the well off :o but I digress.

You have to remember that the yanks are very insular with a selfish world view (not all of them obviously) otherwise they would be apalled by the actions of their government and some of their military forces behaviour.

Try listening to some of the Fox News "shock jocks" to see some/hear unbeleivable bigots

Appletrees: Because conspiracy theorists are always completely fucking hatstand in some way or another. They react to someone gently but firmly pointing out basic physics or basic biology or basic chemistry (you know, all those things that don't change no matter how many experiments you do unless the illuminati got at the results (Bwahahahah!) and demonstrate by bleating, shitting themselves, throwing off wierd random insults in the hope of hitting a target somewhere (Racist! Government poodle! Wearer of Unfashionable Shoes!). and finally by youwling that it Must Be Twoo because they read it on the internet.

FOr the rest of you, here's a useful bullshit detector for THE TRUTH stories about anything you might find on the internet. Are any of the sites remotely credible or independent? Have you run the 'story' through Snopes? If no and no then hmmm, smell the bullsht.

The great war I don't know enough about, but my impression was that it was a consequnce of secret alliances leading to unexpected concequences from that actions of particular states - but I could be totally wrong. Gulf war syndrome is ordinary cover up surely? They didn't expect people to get sick. The Iraq war - I don't know - I think their was certainly a belief by those who started it that it WAS a good thing to do. That might be easier to believe if you think you're going to make money out of it.

But all those things are qualitatively different to the idea that the US Government murdered 3000 of it's own people in order to achieve...something.