to believe some if not all of the 9/11 conspiracy theories

[mrsunreasonable]

NOTE: This is not meant to be offensive and if you suffered as a result of 9/11 you have my deepest sympathies it was a terrible event however it was caused.

Having watched a few documentaries on the conspiracy theories I am partially if not completely convinced all was not as it seemed. The fact that many witnesses that saw/heard things that didn't tie in with the official version have since died in suspicious circumstances doesn't help!

"Columns, shafts, buckling and breaking

it's none of it terribl;y clear for your average Joe to understand."

It requires O Level Physics.

I certainly am studying for a degree, in politics and economics. And yes, I am a full on catholic and have right-wing political opinions, thank you for sharing that with everyone, not that it has anything whatsoever to do with this thread, but what the hell?

Many of the steel columns shattered because they didn't have the time or room to bend.

As you said yourself, most of the lengths of the columns were below the fires and so were at room temperature if not a bit below (building cores tend to be quite cold). So most of the steel was well below the temperature where it would easily bend.

So the steel was a) cold, and b) being hit incredibly hard. Structural steel will bend but it needs at least a bit of time to do so. Hit it too fast and it can't bend fast enough to get out of the way of the load. So it snaps. It also needs room to bend. If it's being crushed under thousands of tons of falling building, where will it find the room to bend?

But daft - you say that because OBL admitted he was behind this, it somehow disprove all conspiracy theories. How does it do that exactly?

Just to throw the secondary explosions thing back in there.

I dont think that the government did it, however they did recieve warnings about the attack that they didnt fully investigate, BUT how often are there hoaxs who knows what other warnings would have bene in place at the time.

But I do think that it was the perfect opportunity for them to 'bury bad news' like that bint said (cant remember who it was) and also persue wars that should NEVER have happened.

I dont think that 9/11 was all that inconvienient to the US administration at the time, however I dont think that they would do something so large just to get what they want.(why not do it a couple of hours earlier, less people around so lives lost would be significantly less for example)

If they did however, I doubt that GWB was in on it, he is too much of an idiot to be allowed to know such plans.

Sorry that should say expat was pmsl and making 7/7 jokes.

Tokyo you are dead rude. You got an inferiority complex or something? FA congrats for not rising to the bait.

This is pretty interesting in a doesn't really matter sort of way.

I knew it. This thread is like a car accident. You know you shouldn't look - but you just cant help yourself...

So after having waded through all 12 disturbing pages of it I would just like to reiterate to those nutjobs people who believe any of the ridiculous conspiracy theories touted - that, if nothing else, it would be impossible for any government to carry it off due to the staggering number of people who would be required to lie, or keep their mouths shut, about it.

A government is made up of people - individuals who by and large are law abiding and have the interests of their constituents at heart. It is inconceivable that great numbers of these individuals would agree to murder their own countrymen to, say, enable their country to invade Iraq.

Seriously.....

Oh don't shake your head epic, that just proves you're part of it....

How does it do that exactly?

because he admitted it - Or do you think the Americans made a puppet of him and put that infront of a camera? I am in no doubt al-qaeda were responsible for 9/11. As much as I love a conspiracy theory. The facts are there, could bombard you with stuff but it's all out there for you to look at.

Oh, and on a personal note, can you please refrain from bringing up BNP/ Catholic stuff, I have mahoosive (and serious) stalker problems on here. If I start a thread about NG or the pope. be my guest to come and have a go, but I'm out of bounds otherwise.

TY

AFFFlightattendant - the majority or experts do agree. But you can always find an expert who disagrees. Like you can find experts who deny global warming and believe that mmr causes autism and that hiv doesn't cause aids.

Oops odd prefix there...

Hmm, sorry, slight tangent - TCNY, which expert believes mmr causes autism? Because I don't think I've ever read that (only the popular misquotes that thesis what is said)

I was leaving off the inverted quotes out of laziness. It wouldn't take much to dig up a GP who doesn't have much truck with all this stats stuff.

Hmm, Andrew Wakefield, look at all the trouble he caused with his conspiracy theories. How many people fell for that?

You can always find someone, who you can make some reasonable basis to be an 'expert' to disagree with almost any mainstream position. It's a standard PR trick to suggest there is controversy where then isn't.

ID supporting scientists, 'nutitionists' who think shit has disagnostic value, homeopathy practioners...

There were experts still denying the link between tobacco and lung cancer 20 years ago.

it was jsut a question.

seems you can't actually come up with an answer though, TCNY.

DP - just for the record, Wakefield never stated that mmr caused autism.

What did he say then?

Ivycaty44
"THIS here is what I wrote ...go to 1.22 in that pentagon shot - I watch three times and failed to see the plane in full - please if they wanted to show properly they could put it into slow motion to show far more - whay havn't they if the consprisey have nothing to hide?"

Because this was before 9/11. There was no culture of CCTV in the us, like there is in the uk. The vast majority of the imagery from the Pentagon was not film footage, it was time lapse photography. The plane hit in between images - hence why they cannot create slow motion.

Do you really believe that the military centre of the us would fall for the possibility that they just don't "fancy" slow motion?

DP - read the paper, in the original. That explains it all.

silverfrog - If you want to do MMR, start another thread. The point I'm making here is the fact that someone can find an expert to disagree with the majority of opinion on a topic does not mean that 'experts cannot agree' or that there is a controversy. It's a pr trick.

Daft- sad you have a stalker but it's not down to me is it? Hope you shake them off and the fact I reiterated your previous posts from other threads which are on the www does not make me responsible. What's on the www is there forever.

I said 'But daft - you say that because OBL admitted he was behind this, it somehow disprove all conspiracy theories. How does it do that exactly?'

You said 'How does it do that exactly?

because he admitted it - Or do you think the Americans made a puppet of him and put that infront of a camera? I am in no doubt al-qaeda were responsible for 9/11. As much as I love a conspiracy theory. The facts are there, could bombard you with stuff but it's all out there for you to look at.'

And I'm saying again that 'the big case with Iranian woman under threat of stoning in her country - she's 'admitted' to being an adulteress and involved in her husband's killing (she's been tortured). In the UK - a man who admitted to a horrible crime - let out of prison (he is now dead) admitted to a crime he had no knowledge of as he thought that's what was wanted from him. Those who admit to things as they've agreed to be the fall guy etc.'

dp - remember back when it happened. Did you see the live coverage? I did - as we had a tv at work - an international development agency. At that moment it was done 'in the name of palestinians' as we were told. We all stood there watching it unfold and came to the conclusion that 'palestinians are fucked now'. But since then nothing about palestinians etc. - nothing about them since in fact.

We have a habit of taking on what we're told to get to our conculusions.
Just because we are told something does not mean it is true.

You, as a student of politics should know that.

TCNY, I don't want to "do" mmr.

I just wanted to dissociate the "conspiracy theory" accusation form anyhting that has been said (reliably, by people who actually know anyhting about the subject) re: wakefiled, mmr, autism, etc.

this is how myths become facts - here we have a thread about nothing to do with mmr. yet along oyu come, and state that experts have said that mmr casues autism (a popularly held, widely misquoted fiction).

I ask you to find just one, and you bluster about being able to find anyone who claims to be an expert, saying anything you want them to say to back up an argument.

Not quite the same thing.

And I dislike people muck-raking to that degree.

as I originally said, it's a tangent.

But yuo brought it up, not me.

and I'm already doing this thread, faith schools and teaching boys, so I'm probably not going to have time for an MMR thread.

/just KNOWS I would get drawn in despite myself...

Giveitago;

I was not blaming you for my stalker problems, I have to accept that there are 1000's of people on the Internet and some of them will be fucked up nutters, i have to deal with that. but if stalkers weren't enough, I get old posts, and even old threads dragged around and thrown at me for no other reason than to cause trouble. I'm not here for the sad and dispossessed to take all their shit out on me, it's not my fault your husband doesn't fancy you, your kids are unpopular and you have no money......don't take it out on me!

When I say you, I don't mean you giveitago, Im speaking generally.