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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to really hate the phrase "There but for the grace of God go I".

101 replies

LilyBolero · 08/09/2010 11:00

I really really hate the phrase "There but for the grace of God go I". It is always used to 'show empathy', and to recognise that any situation could happen to any of us at any happen.

But.

There BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD....

Are people really suggesting that others who are in tough situations (losing a child, suffering disability etc etc ) are in that situation BECAUSE GOD DID NOT SHOW GRACE?????

Really?

Think about it. The phrase suggests that the speaker might also be in that situation, but somehow, God has shown grace and prevented it. Whatever your religious beliefs, I think it is offensive to suggest that somehow someone in a difficult situation is there because God has shown them less favour. I happen to be a Christian, but even if I weren't I would find it a strange thing to suggest.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Heracles · 09/09/2010 01:45

It's just a saying (and a fantastic record).

Original poster
LilyBolero · 09/09/2010 08:49

But "just a saying" could be said about all sorts of things - nothing is 'just' a saying, it's always worth examing what you are actually saying, and not just repeating something you've heard.

OP posts:
wahwah · 09/09/2010 09:48

Well, I appreciate the thinking here. It's good to examine what we say and think about how other people might experience it. I have always used this saying, but I'm not so sure now that it fully expresses what I want to say. So thank you, LilyBolero.

wendihouse22 · 09/09/2010 09:49

I don't think people "think" that deeply.

I would translate it as ..."I feel damned lucky it's not ME"!!

Original poster
LilyBolero · 09/09/2010 09:54

wendihouse - but people should think about what they're saying. Otherwise, as I said below, people would still be going to 'paki-shops', 'working like blacks' and having 'spaz hands' - all of which are expressions I have heard people use 'without thinking'.

OP posts:
saintlydamemrsturnip · 09/09/2010 10:15

but 'there for the grace of god go I' isn't remotely like your phrases above. For starters I don't believe in God so I don't think (for example) that my son is severely disabled because of God. If someone said it about me (I would be a bit surprised if they said it to me) I wouldn't think they were saying I had been forgotten by God.

I genuinely don't understand why you find it offensive.

Original poster
LilyBolero · 09/09/2010 10:34

Offensive may be too strong a word. Irritating and annoying would be more like it.

If you're an atheist, then it's meaningless anyway - as the Grace of God doesn't exist. So saying "I would be in your situation if it weren't for the Grace of God" is kind of stupid.

If you do believe in God, the phrase is altogether more sinister, as it has an element of decision about it.

I agree it isn't 'like' the phrases I listed below - they were examples of why saying "it's just a phrase, you're over-thinking it" is not good - because there are plenty of phrases which were equally used unthinkingly, but absolutely never should have been, and it is RIGHT to question them. And if it is right to question some phrases, and change them, then why not question others?

OP posts:
saintlydamemrsturnip · 09/09/2010 10:36

I think you are just going to have to see this one as something that irritates you but doesn't bother anyone else. Personally the phrase 'me-time' sets my teeth on edge but I just breathe deeply when I hear it and it passes....

Original poster
LilyBolero · 09/09/2010 10:39

There are people on this thread who agree though, once they've thought about it!

OP posts:
saintlydamemrsturnip · 09/09/2010 10:44

People are talking about using it to someone in a dreadful situation which I have never done (and have never had anyone do to me). That would be insensitive

I use it to show recognition that things could easily happen to us (partly because they have) and as a way of remembering to count our blessings (although lots of people look in at our life and think it is some sort of tragedy when it isn't).

Casserole · 09/09/2010 10:45

YANBU OP.

In a similar vein, I hate it when people have a narrow escape from something and then say something like "Thank God for watching over me"

Yes, because he's all about you. He just couldn't be bothered to watch the person down the road whose car DID get hit / who DID get raped / who WAS killed, etc.

Original poster
LilyBolero · 09/09/2010 10:47

Oh, yy, and you have reminded me about another one, when people talk about people beating cancer through their 'brave fight', as though people who died simply lay down and didn't fight it.

OP posts:
Original poster
LilyBolero · 09/09/2010 10:48

That's quite similar in a way - because obviously the person who it would refer to had had a 'brave fight'. But so often it is used as the reason they recovered, often in the press, which does suggest somewhat that people who don't recover didn't fight hard enough.

Comparisons are difficult!

OP posts:
Casserole · 09/09/2010 10:53

Yes!

pagwatch · 09/09/2010 10:54

I don't think of it as meaning anything other than

'one slight difference in my circumstances and that would be me'

which is usually true

Blu · 09/09/2010 10:58

To atheists like me it means 'that could so ealiy have also happened to me and i am greatful that it hasn't, and sorry that it has happened to you', and Lily if to religious people it means "it is only God's grace that keeps me from being in that same situation" then doesn't that tally with many religious people saying 'it's God's will' to comfort themselves when something horrible happens? Can religious peple have it both ways?

Frankly I am more outraged at the various Christian folk who assured me that DS's congenital deformation (horrible technical term) is 'God's Will', and DS's nursery teacher who told them that the sun was not shining that day because 'God was cross with us'. Now apart from being un-meteoroligical misinformation, IMO, leads straight to 'and he sent a Tsunami to thailand because he was furious with the individuals who died. Being grateful for your good fortune is not immediately tantamount to blame for bad.

Original poster
LilyBolero · 09/09/2010 11:05

I have absolutely no prob with your 1st statement, and I never ever say 'it's God will'! What's more I don't think I would find it very comforting really. So, yes, I think I basically agree with you, it's just the phrase is trying toput something, but does it clumsily.

OP posts:
Original poster
LilyBolero · 09/09/2010 11:06

And saying to you that your ds' problems were 'God's will' is crass, insensitive and insulting.

OP posts:
Original poster
LilyBolero · 09/09/2010 11:08

sorry, keep forgetting things - I'm not sure that 'religious people' do think that, I've never discussed it with anyone, I just thought about it when it was being used on here and thought 'Actually it's not very nice!'. And now it bugs me, like when you notice a crack in the wall and then keep noticing it!

OP posts:
pagwatch · 09/09/2010 11:09

Blu
a bloke once told me that all I had to do was accept God into my life and DS2 would be cured. He was closesly associated with the medical profession Hmm

Casserole · 09/09/2010 11:22

There are some wankers out there Sad

Blu · 09/09/2010 11:29

Lily - I don't think they have meant to be crass and insulting (though of course it is!) I think they genuinely mean it in a sort of 'God has willed it, so give yourself over to god's hands and submit and be glad of it' in some sort of bizarre approach to saying 'there there'. A minor version of the Jehovah's Winesses who lost one of their party to drowning when cut off on a sandbank near my Mum. The rescuing RNLI men were disoncerted to find them genuinely rejoicing that God had (in their belief) chosen to drown their friend.

Original poster
LilyBolero · 09/09/2010 11:33
Shock That is definitely strange and wrong!
OP posts:
AnxiousLand · 09/09/2010 18:14

Makes for a nicer thing to say then Blu. I will try and remember this x

Miggsie · 09/09/2010 18:24

My mother used to use this phrase quite a bit, as a reminder that we were fortunate compared to others, and that we should feel compassion for others who are less fortunate than ourselves. Because, it may, one day, be you in a bad way and needing compassion and help.

Mum's friend had a Down's syndrome child and mum would often help her out when some mums avoided her like the plague due to her son being "different".

So I don't see it as offensive, just a reminder that life is a lottery and if we have been dealt a good hand we should not sneer or make fun of those who have not.

It was a way of introducing us kids to the ideas of compassion and humility and empathy for the suffering of others.

This medieval concept of "God determines everything, so tough", I find very depressing.