to really hate the phrase "There but for the grace of God go I".

[LilyBolero]

I really really hate the phrase "There but for the grace of God go I". It is always used to 'show empathy', and to recognise that any situation could happen to any of us at any happen.

But.

There BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD....

Are people really suggesting that others who are in tough situations (losing a child, suffering disability etc etc ) are in that situation BECAUSE GOD DID NOT SHOW GRACE?????

Really?

Think about it. The phrase suggests that the speaker might also be in that situation, but somehow, God has shown grace and prevented it. Whatever your religious beliefs, I think it is offensive to suggest that somehow someone in a difficult situation is there because God has shown them less favour. I happen to be a Christian, but even if I weren't I would find it a strange thing to suggest.

AIBU?

saintlydame - that is, I'm sure how everyone uses it. But even using it about someone else's bad luck is not really nice when you think about the phrase!!!

Any other suggestions for replacement phrases?

"Bloody hell, that could happen to any one of us"?

It doesn't have the same ring, though.

As saintly says - you think it, maybe say but not to the person who was at the receiving end of the misfortune.

I don't see why it's not a nice thing to say. It's just showing that you recognise that you are fortunate and that shit happens and can happen to anyone (it does!) I think it's far meaner to assume you are protected from life's crap!

Reading way to much into this.
It's only an exprssion meaning anything could happen to anyone.

There are loads of expressions that are used in general conversations that people know what is meant but if analyised would be daft.
Like it's raining cats and dogs, Ok maybe a bad example but I hope you get my jist.

So I think you are thinking way to deep.

saintly - but that's my point, the expression suggests that you ARE protected against life's crap, by God's grace, but the other person ISN'T for whatever reason.

I think it's worth thinking deeply about what language we use. There are all sorts of expressions that were in use that are no longer acceptable, because they actually mean something not very nice.

I don't agree at all. But maybe that's because I don't believe in God - so for me there is no God protecting me and God's grace is just chance.

as I said earlier, I say it a fair bit (only really to DH) and we're both atheists. to me it's just an expression - I basically do mean "Bloody hell, that could happen to any one of us" etc.

plenty of atheists use phrases like "oh thank God" etc.

on a slightly different topic, I would actually really like to say grace before meals - not actually thanking God, but more of a general thankfulness that we are having food! but when I suggested it DH was like

Interesting, I'd never really thought about what the phrase litrally means before. Now that I have, I see your point.

I used it the other day to DH, except I replaced the 'I' with 'you'.He was being quite judgey about someone we know, and I was trying to tell him to to be so judgemental and critical of this person because one day he could find himself in exactly the same situation through no fault of his own. It kind of helped get my point across to him, but maybe I should have thought about what I was saying more.

Tell him not to be, even!

I think you are taking it too literally and too personally.

Its meant as a kindness, to acknowledge that none of us are immune to misfortune or fate and to reflect for a while on those less lucky. Its a phrase that means don't take your good luck for granted, reflect on how hard life is for others as it could so easily be you.

I honestly don't think its meant as "you deserve it for not beinhg holy enough". That's a misinterpretation.

Nestar, it may well be not how the original phrase was meant. But it still jars with me, and I think it's good to re-examine language.

If grace is 'god's unmerited favour', then this seems to be to be entirely appropriate.

The phrase, there are people m uch worst off than i or you, pisses me off too,

I just find it a lazy way of coping and shallow

yanbu

You are way overthinking this. And if you are going to pull the language apart and get rid of everything with origins that you don't like then you're going to be using a very slimmed down version of English. Good luck with that, I hear George Orwell had a decent crack at it...

But its's not saying 'There are people worse off than you' AnxiousLand. It's saying 'I am lucky that I have not fallen that misfortune'. So therefore not shallow at all just thankful.

If someone said that to me I would feel heartened that the understood how I felt, and that they appreciated that a) it wasn't my doing and b) that it could happen to anyone. Those are the two main points I get from it.

I understand that you are choosing a literal meaning rather than the intended one, and I don't think thats reasonable.

Are you this literal with other sayings?

Would you expect to see animals fall from the sky if someone said 'it's raining cats and dogs'? Or would you be offended if someone told you to 'break a leg' instead of saying 'good luck'?

Those sayings are idioms though. This one had its origin in a priest seeing others going to their executions, and said that, but for God's grace, that would be him. And I understand that it is a thankful saying rather than a condemnatory saying, but the implication is still that the unfortunate person doesn't have the benefit of God's grace.

There are other sayings which have dropped out of the langauge because they are offensive - I won't quote them here, but my parents have some choice ones. Which no-one would dream of saying now, but you could argue the same - that they are not LITERAL. The intrinsic meaning is still not good.

Why don't you all go and lie down in a darkened room with a damp flannel over your eyes...you'll feel better.

it a platitude oft said with good intentions

I wouldnt use it talking about someone else.
(in fact I wouldnt use it at all but)

more if a bus narrowly missed me and I was telling someone I might say it.
I am bloody lucky this time, next time I might not be just like sometimes other people arent.

AMumInScotland I'm an athiest and I say it, so do others on this thread who are athiests. It's just a part of the English language.

Lily I wont be able to say it now, without your words ringing in my ears... I shall convert, this minute, to 'There but for the roll of the dice'. Much better :)

Yay!