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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to really hate the phrase "There but for the grace of God go I".

101 replies

LilyBolero · 08/09/2010 11:00

I really really hate the phrase "There but for the grace of God go I". It is always used to 'show empathy', and to recognise that any situation could happen to any of us at any happen.

But.

There BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD....

Are people really suggesting that others who are in tough situations (losing a child, suffering disability etc etc ) are in that situation BECAUSE GOD DID NOT SHOW GRACE?????

Really?

Think about it. The phrase suggests that the speaker might also be in that situation, but somehow, God has shown grace and prevented it. Whatever your religious beliefs, I think it is offensive to suggest that somehow someone in a difficult situation is there because God has shown them less favour. I happen to be a Christian, but even if I weren't I would find it a strange thing to suggest.

AIBU?

OP posts:
VirginonRidiculous · 08/09/2010 22:41

I also convert. It really doesn't sound 'me' but I didn't have another phrase to use.

JeezyPeeps · 08/09/2010 22:43

Well LilyBolero, I nearly lost a good friend because I misinterpreted the meaning of what they said, despite knowing in my heart at the time what they mean't and how it was intended.

I have grown up a bit since then, and choose to go by what is in the heart rather than misinterpreting something that was badly worded.

It's entirely up to you if you choose to be offended by something that may or may not be said to you at some point, by choosing an interpretation of the saying that very very few others would choose but I would rather hope that despite not liking the choice of words you would go with the incredibly well-meant feeling behind them. A feeling which is not 'ha ha ha, god likes me better', but is 'that could easily be my/my family'.

I would also like to add that I think to knowingly misinterpret the meaning of something (in the realms of "If anyone ever said it to or about me I would be pretty pissed off!!!! Even though it would be kindly meant!") is not very christian (small c)

nelliesmum · 08/09/2010 22:44

Whose dice?? God's dice?

VirginonRidiculous · 08/09/2010 22:47

Lady Lucks dice. Anyone believe in her?

ChippingIn · 08/09/2010 22:49

Fate's Dice

nelliesmum · 08/09/2010 22:51

Now there's someone you can REALLY disbelieve in.

Original poster
LilyBolero · 08/09/2010 22:57

Jeezypeeps - I couldn't disagree with you more. Throughout this thread I have acknowledged that the person using the statement is well meaning. It's not a question of wilfully misunderstanding what they were saying - more that it's a crap saying. I happen to think that it is good to examine phrases that you use without thought. Since being on MN there are various things that I have changed the way I say, after people have highlighted things about them.

For example, I always refer to my friend's ds as 'having autism' rather than 'autistic'. Because it was pointed out to me that they are very different in the way they define the child. And although the speaker may not be seeking to define the child by the autism, using the definition 'autistic' may do that. So I listened, understood and changed the way I spoke.

Perhaps more similarly, I have heard parents of children with disabilities saying that they hate it when people say "God chooses special people to send his special angels to". It's meant well, but misses the mark completely in some of my friends' eyes.

Without drawing any levels of comparison, that's why I hate this particular saying - it is suggesting something that I don't agree with.

OP posts:
JeezyPeeps · 08/09/2010 23:06

Your statement "It's not a question of wilfully misunderstanding what they were saying - more that it's a crap saying" completely contradicts your earlier statement "If anyone ever said it to or about me I would be pretty pissed off!!!! Even though it would be kindly meant!".

Okay, you don't like the saying. I get it, honestly I do - and making the same point again and again won't change that.

But not EVERYONE will examine every phrase they utter in that kind of detail, and you can't expect them to.

My main issue with what you have stated is your point that you would be "pissed off" despite knowing that it was meant with kindness, and that point hasn't really been answered.

So how would you react to someone that did say it to or about you?

JeezyPeeps · 08/09/2010 23:10

I would also like you to be specific about what exactly it is that you 'couldn't disagree more' about? I don't see anything particularly contentious in anything I said.

You disagree that you should accept the sentiment behind the saying, should someone say it to you, instead taking offence?

Or maybe you think it is very christian to deliberately misinterpret the meaning behind the statement, choosing to take the literal meaning as the one that was implied?

Original poster
LilyBolero · 08/09/2010 23:11

I would be pissed off. Not with the person who said it though. Just pissed off with the phrase, and its existence, because it would resonate round my head. Even if I knew it was not what the person meant at all.

OP posts:
AnxiousLand · 08/09/2010 23:12

LOL

There are people far worst off than you, might mean that, that person is somehow inferior to you?

Or do you think it means that the person that utters the quote means without speaking of his experience, that he might know someone whom is worst off and copes well so you will be ok?

LMAO

Original poster
LilyBolero · 08/09/2010 23:16

I disagree with your implication that I am 'deliberately misunderstanding the sentiment'. I dislike the saying, but am able to work out what is meant. When my MIL gave me vouchers to buy some clothes because she "knew I always dressed the children well, and thought I might need something for myself", I didn't take offence at the possible implication that my clothes are tatty (which they often are).

Similarly, with many phrases that are no longer acceptable in English usage, the person using them may well not have meant the interpretation that is offensive. I have heard people using the expression "working like a black". When I suggested that this was incredibly offensive, they said "Oh, I just mean working hard, don't deliberately misunderstand me". But it doesn't make the phrase less offensive, and the person using it should be educated not to.

I'm not comparing the two. Just showing how it is GOOD to challenge language.

OP posts:
JeezyPeeps · 08/09/2010 23:18

How can you be pissed off with a phrase? Thats such a waste of time and energy on something you can't change.

So, what would you say to the person that had said it? Would they see annoyed you were? Would they understand why?

Would they maybe be a bit perplexed at your misunderstanding that they were actually expressing empathy?

JeezyPeeps · 08/09/2010 23:21

But you ARE by your own statement 'If anyone ever said it to or about me I would be pretty pissed off!!!! Even though it would be kindly meant!' deliberately misinterpreting the statement.

Oh no, I forgot. You are pissed off at the phrase...

Original poster
LilyBolero · 08/09/2010 23:21

It can be changed though. If people just think about what they are saying before they say it, rather than uttering some platitude that is supposed to make you feel better, then the phrase would change.

OP posts:
Original poster
LilyBolero · 08/09/2010 23:23

Exactly, I don't like the phrase. Just as I didn't like hearing people say "They worked like a black".

OP posts:
Original poster
LilyBolero · 08/09/2010 23:25

Actually, I would go further. When I see someone using the phrase on MN, the thought process that goes through my head is "That person is expressing empathy, it's very true that that set of circumstances could happen to any of us, but I do really really hate that phrase, those circumstances didn't happen to that person because for some reason they were devoid of God's grace."

I am totally understanding the person who said it, but still hating the phrase. Clear?

OP posts:
JeezyPeeps · 08/09/2010 23:26

Yeah, although if I were planning a one-woman campaign for change it would be to do with human trafficking or racism or child abuse or poverty or modern-day slavery or something else that actually matters in a real way that affects lives.

but each to their own I guess.

AnxiousLand · 08/09/2010 23:26

I think what people may have missed is that it is the timing of such a phrase. It can come across as insensitive in that respect. This might be what pisses us off. In the respect of the phrase being used in order to try and make a person feel better about death, disablity, personal tradgedy.

I think this phrase/quote is inappropriate.

As people cannot always have control over afore mentioned happenings usually.

JeezyPeeps · 08/09/2010 23:26

Note: that was answering the post at 23:21:16

AnxiousLand · 08/09/2010 23:30

or change it

Original poster
LilyBolero · 08/09/2010 23:31

JeezyPeeps - quite, there are very important issues in the world, you don't know that I am not involved in trying to stop some of those (I have been doing a lot at our church to raise awareness of child trafficking). This is an internet forum - not a one-woman campaign.

OP posts:
anonandlikeit · 08/09/2010 23:39

My Mum always says "there but for the grace of god" she always says it in a all people are equal kind of way, in that god makes people in all shapes & sizes.

Certainly if we were kids & one of us ever said something negative about a disabled person she would always say "there but for the grace of god" & give us one of her stern telling off looks, so i think she meant treat people with kindness whatever kind of thing.

I should add my mum is not at all religious and I'm a bit thikc so may have got it entirely wrong all these years.

AnxiousLand · 08/09/2010 23:48

My Mother says it too although she is too interested in my father and their life and i havent seen her for 5 years.
But as they say there but for the grace of god go i.
Some people have NEVER had a mother

AnxiousLand · 08/09/2010 23:49

in their life except at the birth

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