to be shocked that so may kids have returned to school with incorrect uniform?

[PerpetuallyAnnoyedByHeadlice]

Why? Why buy your kids what can only be termed "fashion" blouses and trousers rather than school uniform ones (and this is primary we are talking about). Why allow them to even say they wont wear the normal polo shirts like everyone else? why buy girls black trousers when the rule is grey - why a grey cardi when it should be green?

obviously if someone has moved into area, or has lost items towards the end of the year, things get a little lax and anything goes, but why buy a whole set of new stuff, that IS NOT the uniform - and its not as if its because its cheaper, its not

the trouble is the kids get used to this and parents pandering to them, but the local secondaries will not tolerate it - I await the annual series of front page stories about how petty schools are for sending kids home for having the wrong trousers, or wearing trainers

I can imagine some of these mums marching in and having a word with their DCs eventual employer about their "right" to be late once in a while, or to not want to wear the provided uniform!

Its not about being petty over a bit of uniform, its about teaching kids to respect authority and follow rules.
What message is it teaching them to say "oh, I know they "said" no trainers but sod them, wear your new Nike's, son!"

I've just remembered that our secondary school skirts had to pass the "kneel down and if it does not touch the floor its too short" test. And we were NOT allowed trousers till what is now year 10.
They should do that here in the borders
the girls go out in the morning with skirts at the knee but roll them up before getting to school some of them look like their going on a night out not school[[
www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/3125894/Head-probed-after-telling-schoolgirls-their-short-skirts-were-distracting-boys.html this is one of the local heads]]I don't agree with his comments but he's got a point.
They only brought full uniform back in a year ago here, when dd1 was at school she said some girls where going in dressed in a long blouse and belt dd2 wears trousers to school and has to wear the tie.

"Its about teaching kids to respect authority and follow rules. "

That's exactly what IS wrong with the country.

"Do what the nice politician/television/doctor tells you. Don't ask any questions. Just do it. (If we're referencing Nike)"

This really annoys me too. My kids used to go to a school where the colours were royal blue and yellow, and there would always be some twit in a navy or grey sweatshirt. I just don't get it. School uniform is cheaper than a happy meal these days so I'm a bit about the money thing.

Also I cannot stand it when boys are allowed to have black trainers for school because they 'won't wear' normal shoes. WTF?

What else 'won't' your chidren do that is in the rules? Get a grip people - stand up to them. Trainers are not necessarily cheaper, and will not necessarily last longer, and chances are your child will want fancy branded trainers anyway. A decent pair of leather school shoes will last a term, even on a heavy going boy, providing you buy PROPER ones, and not those silly flimsy fashion moccasin style things. It is school unifrom, after all.

I personally don't see much benefit in school uniform, but given that we are stuck with it in most places, then it needs to look smart and cohesive. Nothing looks worse than a motley assortment of almost similarly clad scruffy kids, each trying to flout a rule.

I'm reminded of a secondary school in the next town that was in special measures. The new Head came in and began sorting things out with the uniform. He stood at the gate with a large box of dyed pink second hand gym shoes. Every child who came to school in trainers or non sensible shoes had to go home and change them or exchange them for a pair of pink gym shoes.

I personally prefer school uniforms.

There is very little competition if all pupils abide by the rules and wear the correct uniform.

DS1's has just gone into yr8 at secondary on Tuesday, the school changed the uniform over the holidays - I found out Monday that the uniform had changed and borrowed the money to make sure he had the correct uniform.

Although he still is minus the correct p.e kit - he has the right colours without the logos on. Simply because of the prices.

Yes uniforms can and are expensive but it prevents competition between pupils.

DS1 wanted these @ £75

I bought him these @ £38

he has a choice wear them or wear his socks.

Quite right too!

It does not prevent competition between pupils

I agree actually. We still all know who the rich and poor kids are, and which ones are allowed to have all the fashionable trendy uniform, and which ones are forced to wear Clarks shoes.

Kids will find ways to subvert the uniform and show their class/tribe allegiance. Twas always thus!

My ds managed to look like an emo kid despite his uniform

grin - while I am paying they wear what they are told

PerpetuallyAnnoyed - your comments about improving a school by insisting on a strict uniform and also stopping children leaving school at lunch time are very interetsing indeed.

My DSs go to a fairly well regarded private school but most peple in the local community feel it is 'slipping'. Its league table position has slipped and standards in general have too.

Me and DW have on many occassions noted the girls wearing what appears to be 'night club' versions of their school uniform, and lots of non standard dress in general. No one seems to care, least of all the Headmaster. What we also strongly object to is the pupils in the senior school being allowed out into town at lunchtime and hanging about in various fast food joints, Tesco, etc.

We strongly feel that if the uniform were strictly adhered to and the pupls kept in school doing something useful and eating decent food at lunchtime that a strong signal would be sent and it would positivley impact standards.

Very interesting to see that it is in fact being shown to work in even very poor failing schools. I suspect what happens is those pupils and parents who just will not adere to these simple rules are removed or choose to leave. Implementing a strict but fair uniform policy is like removing grafitti in a run down area. It is well known to also result in a cut back on all sorts of other antisocial behaviour and raise standards and restore a sense of pride.

Thing is no parent should "allow" their child to have a fashionable trendy uniform.

The thing is senior school age children socialise after school with each other ..so all the same dreary uniform in the world will not stop them knowing who's rich/poor/emo/scene/gangsta etc

CarmenSanDiego - ""Its about teaching kids to respect authority and follow rules. "

That's exactly what IS wrong with the country."

I respectfully suggest that whilst very few people want a return to the 19th century, the pendulum has perhaps swung a tad too far towards empowering pupils - hence the all-too prevalent problems of discipline, attacks on teachers and other pupils etc.

Teaching kids to respect authority and follow rules is one way of tackling this problem.

Not having pupil forums where pupils attend other classes to assess with their opinion of how the teacher is doing would help as well.

I don't really see the point of a prescriptive, logo'd uniform - IMO a colour scheme is just plenty. As a PP said, logo'd polo shirts are £8.50 EACH, compared to £5 for 3 in the shops.
And they don't last, the ones from DD last year are not really usable for DS1 as they are faded and worn looking.

I am a teacher too - I don't think uniform is that important.

YANBU - if parents choose to send their children to a school with a uniform/dress code then they should try and fit in with it.

I think what the law about not enforcing primary uniforms was trying to do was to make sure parents weren't bankrupted by unreasonable uniform costs - and I think that's right. Compulsory logo'd stuff is wrong at that age IMO - but colour schemes? perfectly reasonable - and why would you want to single your child out as 'different' by not complying?

I used to when children would come up wearing a sweatshirt, t-shirt and trainers instead of school uniform and tell me that they couldn't afford a P.E kit.

Someone drew a cartoon of it for me.

My ds would have gone to school in his socks rather than wear clarks shoes