to be shocked that so may kids have returned to school with incorrect uniform?

[PerpetuallyAnnoyedByHeadlice]

Why? Why buy your kids what can only be termed "fashion" blouses and trousers rather than school uniform ones (and this is primary we are talking about). Why allow them to even say they wont wear the normal polo shirts like everyone else? why buy girls black trousers when the rule is grey - why a grey cardi when it should be green?

obviously if someone has moved into area, or has lost items towards the end of the year, things get a little lax and anything goes, but why buy a whole set of new stuff, that IS NOT the uniform - and its not as if its because its cheaper, its not

the trouble is the kids get used to this and parents pandering to them, but the local secondaries will not tolerate it - I await the annual series of front page stories about how petty schools are for sending kids home for having the wrong trousers, or wearing trainers

I can imagine some of these mums marching in and having a word with their DCs eventual employer about their "right" to be late once in a while, or to not want to wear the provided uniform!

I can't stand school uniforms. It's a long-held philosophical belief, call me what you like.

I never could understand how looking identical would help me learn things.

I've noticed that the sort of half-arsed uniforms the primary schools do, whereby you can wear blue or grey or black trousers or skirt, with red or grey or blue cardigans and a white shirt or polo shirt or pullover looks so silly in school photos compared to children just wearing normal clothes.

Do agree PerpetuallyAnnoyedByHeadlice & Mumbar but didn't want to be one of those parents that says of course the school rules should be followed, just not my child, iyswim.

Maybe I should have a word with his teacher, he was a bit upset at going bare foot.

wastingaway - uniforms are not meant to help you learn things per se but they are designed to help foster team spirit...to enable children to identify with one another because of going to the same school.

Then again, I did 10 years in the Army so am fairly relaxed about the wearing of uniforms!

There is a time and a place for expression of individuality and the debate over school uniforms policy is not it, in my view.

wastingaway I hate school uniforms as well

Other countries manage just fine without school uniforms so I don't buy the arguements in favour of them and there is no empirical evidence to back up arguements about better behaviour or results.

I think parents who find it easier to get their kids dressed are abdicating parental responsibility for developing a Childs skills on deciding what to wear.

Teachers time should be spent teachng not enforcing uniform policy. School uniforms should be scrapped. School is not the army and is no place for uniform.

OP there are real issues you should be worried about, minor uniform transgressions are a bit of a jobsworth preoccupation imo.

Barmy, surely a discussion on uniform is the perfect place to discuss expression of individuality?

IMO, uniforms are about status.

A police officer holds certain power in our society, but when they get promoted to detective they go plain clothes (if I've watched my sop shows right ).

The more uniform a uniform is ie. a McDonalds costume as opposed to the generic 'smart casual' of office staff, the lower a status job it is.

School uniform is about control, pure and simple.

I agree with you, Perpetually - have to say though, what really annoys me is when schools let kids wear anything and everything, my DSDs' old school was so lax. I'm guessing it was because of income (high level of FSM, EAL etc) but it's hard to be convinced that's a good reason when the poorest kids are coming in with £100 trainers - it just increases the peer pressure IMO.

When new "superheads" take on failing schools, one of the first things they often do is change the uniform to a more formal one, and insist that it is adhered to. Some parents laugh and say "as if that will make any difference" - but time and time again it does - one of our local secondaries was the pits 3 years ago and is now heavily oversubscribed. the head had a real battle when he first went there, loads of front page local paper stories from parents ranting about their poor child being sent home from school in trainers - the same ilk who would shove junk food through the school gates in the Jamie Oliver series on school dinners.

BUT, once it was seen that he meant business, it all settled down. The first step to getting a hold on discipline, instilling some self worth, and a sense of community.....their results this year were absolutely amazing

*cop shows, sorry.

People who don't advocate school uniforms are not generally against healthy eating Perpetually. There is no published research that demonstrates any benefits at all of school uniform.

I think my DD's school have got the balance right. Trousers, skirts or pinifores can be black, grey or bottle Green (school colour), Jumpers/Fleeces or Cardis can be Bottle Green, Grey or Black and shirts or polo shirts can be White or Grey. No school badges required. This gives enough leeway to shop around for good prices, but they all look smart and pretty well co-ordinated. In summer we can (if we want, but not a must) put her in summer gingham dresses, again with a choice of Green check or yellow check. It is the cost of shoes, trainers etc that really gets me, as shoes aren't something I will get cheaply, so it's £30+ at Clarkes.

wastingaway -" The more uniform a uniform is ie. a McDonalds costume as opposed to the generic 'smart casual' of office staff, the lower a status job it is."

Nurses wear uniforms that are uniform. Are you suggesting that they have a low status?

Why do people think the stricter the
uniform,the better the school? I've never understood that

FA - I was only speaking about the specific people I know of, I was not implying a general link between being anti uniform and anti healthy school dinners - with many it is just an anti-authority thing, and a wanting to please their DC by siding with them not the school

Purplewednesday nurses wear a uniform and enjoy a lower status than doctors who do not wear uniform

Of course nurses have a low status, they are treated very poorly. Which is very shit. Doctors don't wear uniform do they?

I guess it comes down to personal choice - my own preference is for a school that is more traditional in its approach...you know, uniforms, discipline, streaming by ability, academic rigour, that sort of thing.

wastingaway - yes, it is about status. Most pupils should wear uniform and the 6th/7th form should be free to choose..having earned the right to do so by getting that far.

purplewednesday - yes, compared to doctors, nurses have a low status.

"Why do people think the stricter the
uniform,the better the school? I've never understood that"

because if they are strict on the little things they are usually strict on the bigger things too - and having a smarter image makes the school more highly thought of in the community - instead of scruffy oiks loitering around, they are smart and more of a credit to the school

this in turn rubs off on the students self esteem, and DOES then generate a better school "feel" and better results.

the other thing one of the local heads has done which was unpopular but which i have no doubt will improve peoples opinion of the school, is stop them going off site at lunch (to muck around in tescos) - there will be fewer complaints about student behaviour, so they will not feel everyone hates them and its not even worth trying...

these things do work

I couldn't tell you which kids at DDs school come in without correct uniform, can't say I've bothered looking tbh.

There are several things that DD's school offer which are logo'd - jackets, fleeces, cardies, jumpers, polos, book bags, pe bags etc they are expensive and some parents kit the kids out, but there was no pressure to buy any of it. We bought DD a logo'd cardie, everything else (white/red polo, grey skirt, red jumper/cardie) are from m&s or anywhere else that sells uniform. The only thing we did boob on was initially sending her in navy shoes, they should have been black and we did buy black when she grew out of the navy shoes during the first term.

There are some very low income families who send children to DD's school and as far as I can see the uniform is stuck to loosely by everyone (i.e some kids wear trainers but they are black). It's not worth getting worked up about, just concentrate on getting your own DC in the correct uniform and try not to look at anyone else

Not all nurses wear uniforms! I'm a mental health nurse and I can assure you that a uniform has never touched me

I would buy DD the right school uniform if I was given a list, but I wouldn't really care too much about everyone else, I think there are much more important things to worry about.

You don't learn better in a uniform.

What status does a doctor in scrubs get then?

hobgoblin - I think the sense of team spirit, pride and belonging that a uniform gives does help to foster a positive school ethos and that a school that tolerates children flouting uniform guidelines (ties mistied, shirts hanging out, sleeves allowed to stretch and hang loose) is not one with the eye for detail that I seek for my daughter.

Drs don't have to move / lift pts and thus need appropriate clothing to prevent injury to themselves or the pt.

Drs don't need to put people on commodes or bed bath them, or generally get close enough to get covered in poo.

Drs don't have to aspirate NG tubes / empty catheter bags / change stoma bags / do wound dressings.

Nurses uniforms are partly to reduce the risk of cross infection by stopping staff wearing them in asda whilst choosing their fresh fruit and veg.

Drs who do have extended patient contact / carry out procedures / surgery and need to be mindful of infection risks do wear uniforms - they are called scrubs.

Its got bugger all to do with status and everything to do with patient safety.

purplewednesday - all very true but nurses still have a lower status compared to doctors...and always will, er...obviously.