to think that Muslim Girls should not be wearing headscarves....

[PosieParker]

at primary school?

here

Its totally relevent that its cultural. I don't walk around with my tits out because its cultural to cover them , not because I think men won't be able to control themselves if they see them.

Why not get a hat which ties under the chin? Far less sexualising.

Fuck culture. It's not an excuse for woman-hating. I am sick of 'oh let them have their culture' being trotted out to excuse not punishing superstitious shitbags for their misogyny - female genital mutilation? Honour killings? Burquas (the full burqua which is a health and safety hazard as well as a mobile prison)? Oh well, gotta tread sensitively around their culture, which tranlsates as 'Men;s feelings and moronic superstitions are far more important than the bodily integrity and safety of women and children.'

As to adult women who freely choose to wear the hijab, niquab or jilbab, I do find this a bit problematic. Because what you wear is your own business, but I'm afraid choosing to wear it does have connotations of you thinking it's all right to sign up to a myth system that condones the killing of women for not wearing such clothing and is riddled with misogyny - and I can never understand why an intelligent, educated woman would choose to sign up to superstitions which are so tainted by abusers and their abuse being not just shielded but supported. (Islam, Catholicism etc)

I don't need any explanation I have read the Quran cover to cover.

Riven are implying that other schools aren't accepting?

I don't pick on Muslims, I dislike certain practices that the religion requires. Actually just the ones that involve women and men, you can try and make it prejudiced if you like but if SAlly down the orad expected her dd to cover up but not her sons I would feel the same.

Posie, why do you choose to specifically link in your OP to the website of a Muslim school that does not have headscarves as a compulsory part of its uniform ?

Muslim men don't expose their bodies either, they wear long sleaves and trousers and nothing tight.

History - that is what they are supposed to wear. Of course, in reality, that doesn't happen in about 90% of cases.

Riven Tue 07-Sep-10 13:57:47
Its not SGB but in some cultures - Somali especially, its usual.

Erm is this the same culture that 90% of girls have FGM?

Is Islam immune from criticism or something? I'll question religion all day long thanks, I was brought up to question everything that looked interesting, odd or unfair to me and that's how I live my life.

It's just lazy to say that it is 'bashing', and to ignore the very reasonable questions that non religious people have about how organised relgions expect women and girls to behave.

God but you guys are amazing. What's it got to do with sexualisation. National dress in the country I grew up in includes a head scarf for women. Abs nothing to do with religion at all. It is just part of the outfit and has always been so. Why do you all feel so justified in tearing apart other peoples cultures because you have a teeny weeny bit of information about it, and why suppose that the western way of dress is the only way.

Perhaps it's because you're a Muslim? Perhaps many already knew you? Perhaps the other schools or areas in which your dd was trying to socialise was full of narrow minded people?

As for wearing what Mummy wears don't most people have restrictions?

What counrty did you grow up in Tokyo? Because I cannot think of one wear women cover without it having roots in some misogynist religion or another?

I think we need to look at the reasons why muslim men (according to this pro-hijab argument)- are unable to control themselves around women.

My husband seems to be able to go to tescos and see a woman's bare head and not sexually assault her. Is it in the genes do you think?

Yup, I'll question the RC church's treatment of women until my face turns blue.

Is it just Muslim men who can't control themselves? The Muslim lady in the chemist the other day rushed to cover herself up when an old (non Muslim) man teetered in on 2 walking sticks, and a workie (again, non Muslim) in his overalls with what was obviously the headache from hell came in 2 buy the entire painkilling stock. Perhaps it's just men in general? I'd better watch out for DH, DS1 (13) but DS2 (3) is hopefully safe for a couple of years.

I'm happy to tear apart a culture which sees my sister in law stuck in a stinking hot saudi flat for 365 days a year unable to work, drive or socialise.

I'm happy to tear the fuck into a culture which has her living in fear of stepping a foot outside her flat (even with her husband) without checking whether there is a strand of hair out of place. She hobbles off to the shop with an entourage with sweat running down her back feeling sick and afraid that the 'morality police' with stop her and beat her for fuck all reason.

I'll tear apart a culture that gives her no rights, no identity, no freedom

You can be smug here in the UK Riven and blether on about being attacked. YOUR IN THE UK AND YOU'RE SAFE.

You're lucky love.

SGB although i can only gree with you in your dislike of religions, and the promotion of mysogyny within religions, freedom of choice is and shoud be allowed to women within those religions to do as they wish.

otherwise in a way, it's just more woman-controlling.

and i believe the more accepting a society is, the more moderate it is, the more people living ithin it will become moderate as well. Nothing fuels militancy and extremism than having real enemy - in the form of Burq-bashing - to contend with. It legitimises claims that Europeans are anti-muslim.

what SGB said

tokyo, why do you think national dress includes a headscarf for women?

Why?

If nobody ever asks why, or is allowed to ask why, we end up with countries like Iran, who think it's entirely rational to bury someone up to the neck and throw stones at them because they took their vagina into the smae vicinity as an unrelated male. Because, basically, nobody is allowed to ask "WHy do you think this is rational behavior?"

Toyko Twist - wow, talking, understanding other people's views is a good thing. Genuine discussion, addressing a genuine issue is also a good thing :)