to think that salaries should always be included in job adverts?

[nameymcnamechange]

That's all really.

Is there a reason why they aren't?

So they can lure you in at a low wage, or so they can change it depending on your experience/qualifications.

Just guessing, it annoys me too.

I normally put something like "salary will be negotiable dependent on experience, c£20 - £25K with opportunity to discuss at interview"

I know this is vague but it really does depend on how much someone can earn for me - if they are good and productive they are worth more to me and my business.

You come to interview and sell yourself well I pay accordingly but if I need to spend time and money training you for 12 months then again I pay accordingly.

It is unreasonable to expect salary in the advert but NU to expect and indication of possibility.

Just my 2p worth from this side of the fence. It is difficult and I will often put a lower amount than I am actually willing to go up to.

You must know what salary you want and what the market is doing at the moment in your sector? It probably wont be a million miles off that and there is ALWAYS room to negiotiate.

I'm not sure why it is annoying? Can you explain - I'm very interested.

I agree its very annoying - I have wasted time filling out applications and even attending interviews for jobs in the past, and then discovering at the end of the interview that the salary is half what I expected. Therefore a waste of everyones time.

Ads should include a rough 'ball park' figure.

If the salary seemed low I wouldn't apply - if you often put a lower amount than you are willing to pay don't you think the 'higher end' people might just not bother?

Why would you give up some of your negotiating power if you were in their position?

It's not annoying to be given a range, but it is annoying to see "£competitive" or nothing at all. It's part of the basic information you need as an applicant, to know whether it's worth applying for. I feel it gives too much power to the employer because it puts you in the (kind of degrading) position of being seen to be jumping through hoops for the chance of a job regardless of pay, whereas in an ideal world imho it should be applicant and employer both deciding whether they are right for one another and making a mutually beneficial contact. Also there is all that stuff about 'the first one to mention salary loses' so although you could ask and negotiate at interview, it can be seen as bad form before you've had a job offer.

Your "Reward package" for doing a job isn't always just salary. In various places I have worked, the package consists of money - yes, always - but also car, health care, more time off, and even school fees. So "Salary could potentially be £X with no extras or £smaller than X with several extras.

'Above minimum wage' is the worst one. Of course it's above minimum wage, that's THE LAW. FFS...

Ah, but above it. You might get £5.85 instead of £5.80. Now, don't spend it all at once!

This is one of my pet hates. You'd think you'd have a pretty good idea of the going rate for your particular sector wouldn't you, but in recent years, your past experience isn't always a guarantee, far from it, of a reasonable guess. I've enquired about jobs where the salary, when it was eventually revealed, is far far lower than I expected it to be based on the job description and the skills/experience being demanded. That's what happens when it's an employer's market.

I've even called ahead of actually applying to ask for a range (I understand that there may have to be some flexibility according to experience etc) and this info has been refused, as "it'll be discussed at interview". You can only assume (in 99% of cases) that the range is probably crap and the employer is banking upon people being so desperate that they will gamble on wasting several hours (application form, letter, travel, interview) in the hope that the salary might be enough for them to live on. I personally think it's quite contemptuous not to give prospective employees an idea at least, even if specific figures aren't quoted. It almost makes you wonder if it's a diversionary tactic to avoid huge nos of application forms which would otherwise have to be read.

I also hate "above minimum wage". If minimum wage has to be mentioned at all you just know the pay is awful.

YANBU. I hate it when they ask for your "salary expectations" so they can auction you against other candidates. They should have a set value for the work that needs doing.

"I hate it when they ask for your "salary expectations" so they can auction you against other candidates. They should have a set value for the work that needs doing."

Why? their motivation is to do what's best for their company.If they feel they can get similarly qualified candidates to do the job to a similar standard but for different salaries then that's exactly what they should be doing.

I don't like the idea that the greedier person gets more money, whereas a more modest person will be paid less.

.... for doing the same job.

but that's pretty much how negotitaions work. It's not greed, it's knowing your value and selling yourself as being worth a certain amount to the company.
The company in turn knows how much it is willing to pay for certain candidates and certain positions and will try to get them for an amount that they view as reasonable to the company.
Not automatically under-pay them even if they feel they could because they want to instill loyalty and a productive work environment but not necessarily offer the full amount that they can afford to pay straight-off as they have a bottom line.
When you buy a car or a house you do it based on 3 criteria normally. What you would like to pay, what you can afford to pay and how much you and how much you think the seller is willing to accept. You don't make your first offer your whole kitty if you think it isn't worth it or if you think the seller will accept less.
Fairness isn't an issue, you get what the market dictates.

Sarthrell - you asked why it is annoying. Quite simply, I don't want to be wasting my time on applying for jobs that pay too little.

A very long time ago I was working in central London and saw an advert for a job I was qualified to do much closer to home. I applied and went to the interview. At the time, in the West End, I was earning £22,000 ish. I certainly expected the local job to have a lower salary - £18,000 maybe? Turns out they were offering £11,000! What a waste of everyone's time and effort!

YANBU. My DH is currently looking for a new job and he's wasted time on applications for jobs which - when he got to interview - were offering ridiculously low salaries for the level of experience and specialist expertise that they wanted.

It's perfectly reasonable to do as Sarthrell does and have a range - ie, £20-25k - dependant on qualifications and experience, but not reasonable to give no indication at all of even what ballpark you're in. Some employers are either clueless or taking the piss with the bang they expect for their (tiny) bucks! Timewasters need not advertise...

YANBU. Dh has been to a few interviews - taking time off work, travelling into the City etc., only to find out that their fantastic pay package is less than half of what he earns now.

It's a waste of not only your time but theirs too.

They do it to prevent their current staff from getting the hump and resigning.

Speaking as someone who had to advertise for my own successor at £27,000 pa, when I was on £8.50 an hour.

Well, I was leaving anyway I suppose. But when said successor couldn't hack the job and left after 2 months, they rang me up and asked me to come back. For £9.50 an hour. Funnily enough I didn't go.

Why not ask when you request an application form?
We often don't put this sort of detail in as it's complex if dependant on experience and many adverts charge per word.
I'd always ask about money before applying for a job. Sounding as though you know your worth rather than are desperate is usually good. Not taking a job after interview because it doesn't pay well enough and you hadn't bothered to ask how much it pays doesn't look good.

Yes, and my point is why should you have to ask? Why can't they give you this rather pertinent piece of information.

Thanks for all replies.

I think I will err on the side of thinking that employers who advertise jobs without salaries are erring on the side of caution and trying to pay the minimum.

maktaitai!

Why don't you work out what salary you could live on, the minimum, see what they are expecting from you, consider your experience, any other benifits they will include, etc, and add a percentage on as to what you feel is fair?
I have a figure i have stuck to and won't take the job if it doesn't pay that or above.

I have always told my employers what i expect to be paid, quite matter of factly, i know what im worth in my sector and am as fair to them as i am myself.
I have never been told i am expecting to high a salary, and TBH all my employers have told me that they respect the way i dealt and discussed how i have come to this figure, if you can justify it, they can't say no unless there really is no money in the pot.

rebecca I'm currently finding myself in a situation where I'm being put forward for jobs which do not advertise a salary, which are marked under that all-encompassing "competitive" - and conditions and benefits vary for the companies, e.g., some give a car (huge bonus for me) - some give a bicycle (um thanks, 2 dogs, 1 baby, 1 horse, 1 man).

Now, if I were to say before interview "oooh, how much do you pay?" that IMO, would make me look like a money-grabbing twat, and, desperate - wheras you say it won't!

I will go to the interview and, if they like me, will open negotiations on salary. In my experience private companies are able to be very flexible.

I am in a very fortunate position right now of being able to turn them down if the package is not what I am looking for and I very much understand that it's not always an option - lord knows I've taken shoite jobs in the past to put food on the table!

I wouldn't think that if you asked about salary, but would think badly of you if you got offered the job and then turned it down because salary not high enough. I would expect people applying for a job to find out likely pay scale before interview. Adverts are usually small and expensive and salary details can be complex. It's not money grabbing to know your own value. If a popular job then the personel person you phone about salary details before applying for the job won't remember who asked about salary and who didn't anyway.
I've never gone for an interview without having an idea of pay beforehand. Sounds daft.