to think that salaries should always be included in job adverts?

[nameymcnamechange]

That's all really.

Is there a reason why they aren't?

I'm not convinced - perhaps it depends at what sort of level the job is at. The jobs I go for don't have application forms.

Perhaps companied don;t want their competitors to know what they pay.

And above minimum wage means that, it is higer than the minimum wage rather trhan dead on the minimum wage.

Loads don't specify. Really irritating.
The salary is a huge PART of the decision. dream job for 18k or same job for 45k. which would you apply for ?

2rebecca, i think yoy are unusual. money is a dirty word. i went for an interview and was offered 2 jobs, one higher skilled and higher paid than the other. i expressed an interest in both but prefered the higher one. they went back to hays and said they felt i was only interested in money.

It is irritating but I would also like to the following included:

Nightmare boss

Realistically how many hours you are expected to work. When they say 9-pm I would like it to be that not 9-7pm with no extra money.

Can you take all your holiday or is the nightmare boss going to sabotage that.

Are the co-workers twats.

Ours don't have application forms as such, but you have to contact our personel folk to get more details of the jobs, and we expect a supporting letter with the CV saying why the job appeals showing you have read the job spec. If a high paid job we expect applicants to come and have a look at the place. It's as important that they are happy as that we are as we don't want to readvertise every few months.
It does sound as though some businesses are stuck in the 1950s when you didn't value your staff as an important part of the business.
We are a small business though, so people getting on is important.

I guess it varies between industries. Currently I am advertising and may take a new graduate whose salary will be around £22,000 package about £34,000 or I could take someone with 7 years experience salary around £35,000 package could be worth up to £50,000. Sector is very short of people and whilst we would prefer experience we can only employ what comes forward. So we advertise salary commensurate with experience.
My bug bear is in our industry accomodation and council tax paid is the norm and the number of people who seriously undervalue what that is worth. No am not increasing your basic salary offer when I am providing you with a two bedroom house CT paid, even though the other employer is offering £6,000 more got you've got to pay your own rent and council tax get real this is the thames valley house and rent is worth at least £9,000. Get off my soap box.

If a potential applicant asked about salary would you be happy to tell them the above though Lizcat or would you view it as "moneygrabbing"?
To me wanting to know if you can afford to take the job is just sensible and saves interviewing folk and paying their travel fees when they aren't interested in the total job package and hadn't made the effort to find out what it was.

I have always been too scared to ask about salary. I have been told it is greedy. Now I am confused . Is my failure to ask stopping me find a job?

I wouldn't not offer someone a job because they hadn't asked about salary, and I have no idea which people we interview have enquired beforehand about salary and which haven't. For bigger jobs we do know who has visited to look at the place and ask questions, and if someone lived locally and hadn't been in touch we would wonder how bothered they really were. I know some companies don't expect or encourage this though.
We would always discuss the salary at interview though.

This annoys me too, I think at least a range dependent on experience etc is helpful, so no-one's time is wasted.

I applied for what sounded like a fairly responsible position, about £18,000 - £20,000 I thought, I then found out it was only £12,000, an amount I couldn't manage on.

southnorth - "I don't like the idea that the greedier person gets more money, whereas a more modest person will be paid less... for doing the same job."

This was a joke, right?

I have always negotiated salary/daily rate of pay upwards, at every opportunity.

The key is to ascertain when the time is right and to do so on the basis of strength...like knowing what competitors/colleagues pay/are paid.

It's no exaggeration to say that showing a bit of front to a prospective employer - being cheeky, arrogant, cocky, confident etc etc usually plays off, as it increases your value in their eyes.

I am quite happy that salaries are not advertised - I have a rough idea what I am worth in my sector at the level I am, and it is up to me to be savvy enough to get the most salary out of the company.

So, at interview, they ask me what I think I am worth. I always say the figure right at the top plus a couple of grand. When offered the job, they normally try to shave a bit off, I stick to my original figure and ususally settle at a grand or so below the original figure (so a bit more than I expected).

It is foolish not to discuss salary right from the start - you have to be a bit bullish, you are selling yourself effectively. If you are confident in asking for a high figure most employers worth their salt will think that you are evidently worth the money. If they don't, well, best off not working for them in my view.

Plus, i work in engineering procurement in a male dominated sector. So, my interview is the perfect opportunity to show how hard nosed I can be in negotiations.

I do think that often men are better at this than women. They seem in general more comfortable discussing salaries and negotiating over pay. They don't care as much about appearing greedy and are more concerned about getting the best deal they can.

Well that's not a good thing is it, rebecca?

Non-disclosure of salaries is one of the reasons for the gender pay gap.

When pay is negotiable men negotiate higher salaries than women. It is also used as a guise by discriminatory employers to deliberatly pay women less. (There is research that shows that women will do the same job for less then men so it is cheaper to hire women).

A few months ago I applied for a fairly low level two day per week job. Without sounding arrogant, I was a little suprised not to get an interview for various reasons and phoned to check that my application (a written appl was required) had arrived.

Strangely, three months later I had a call asking if I was still interested in the position as they still had my CV and apparently mine "stood out", (yeah sure) which I was.

I was getting quite excited but refused to answer my "salary expectations". The person turned out to want to pay £3 less per hour than I was currently earning (we are only talking about 15 hours per week here and I am assuming that the person originaly appointed hadn't worked out) so I declared how sorry I was that I was unable to attend for interview as the salary was too low.

I subsequently wrote a letter that day, drove to put it in the door of the office by hand and said how very disappointed I was and would be happy to work for £x per hour (my current salary plus 50p per hour).

It's been three days now and no contact.

If I'd heard the salary in the first place I wouldn't have applied. Somehow (I'm an optimist) I still have a little hope that I'll hear something good.

YANBU, I hated it when job hunting. How the hell am I meant to know whether I can afford to do the job or not?!

foreverastudent - if you employ a woman you are taking on the risk of her leaving when pregnant (and then stringing you along until the very end of her maternity leave, when she knows darn well all along that she isn't coming back).

These things cost employers...so this is factored into lower pay for women.

Unfair? Hell, yeah!

Pure, hard-nosed good business sense? Absolutely!!

It's completely normal to phone/email and enquire about salary before putting effort into an application and I can't think it would ever be seen as "greedy" - it's practical. There may be someone in the organisation doing exactly the same role who doesn't want their salary broadcast to the rest of their collegues.

barmyarmy- I hope one of your employees sues you and you go out of business and go bankrupt and lose everything. If you want to run your business illegally go to India/China where you'll find plenty of female slaves workers willing to work for pennies.

YANBU, I find this annoying too. It's the first thing I look for in a job advert. But if the salaries were stated perhaps people would be put off applying?

Twice I have applied for jobs, gone through a lengthy (2 - 3 months) application process, up to 3 interview rounds with various people, been shown round the department etc. only to get the final offer at £200 - 300 p.a. more than current salary, less holiday, less pension etc. And this was when the market for employees was far more buoyant. And both times the employers have been pretty mardy when I turned the offer down, as if I was the one wasting their time.

And this is with me having been upfront with the agent from the start and giving all my salary details (even down to pension contributions - complete breakdown of how entire package is made up). The agent is often very frustrated at the employer's lack of transparency around salary expectations. Went for an interview yesterday and agent was saying employer had not researched how much the advertised role would pay and so they were just testing the market to see what candidates were being paid. Pffffft.

At least when they express a range you can see where you might fit if you sell yourself on experience.