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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to have reported my "friend" for benefit fraud

312 replies

buttercupp · 06/09/2010 13:27

ok so cant go into too much detail for obvious reasons but i have a friend (not know for long but lives near me) and i have been debating for a while now whether to report her or not for living with her partner who is also claiming as living alone.

so today i have done it finally after being fed up of hearing what other electrical applicance they have bought with the stupid amount of money they have been given when my DH is out at work slogging his guts out just to make ends meet.

The reason i havent done it before is like i say she is supposed to be my friend,we have had nights out together and she has a baby so have felt a bit bad in that respect too but i knew i had to do the right thing.
would i be a hypocrite to continue to be her friend or should i avoid her from now on? i do like the girl just dont agree with what she was doing.and anyone know what will happen now i have reported her?

OP posts:
deakell · 06/09/2010 16:28

Tax avoidance is the legal utilization of the tax regime to one's own advantage. It is neither stealing or morally wrong.

deakell · 06/09/2010 16:28

nor morally wrong rather

Witchcat · 06/09/2010 16:30

It is morally wrong to take money that if not yours.

deakell · 06/09/2010 16:32

BonzoDooDah, please learn difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance (the latter aka tax mitigation).

If one can legally reduce their taxes, how is that OUR tax money

knickers0nmyhead · 06/09/2010 16:32

I had a friend who did this to me. I was living with exp at the time but we were not living as a couple. couldn't prove otherwise so my benefits were stopped.
I had to rely on my dad to support me until I moved out. knew it was her as she was the only person who knew I was claiming.

deakell · 06/09/2010 16:33

You aren't taking money.
You're just making yourself more tax efficient within the rules; this is allowed you know.

Are people who have ISA's also to be accused of taking money they shouldn't? ISA's being a perfectly legal way to reduce tax paid on interest on savings?

emmyloulou · 06/09/2010 16:43

YANBU at all I did something similar, reported a not so friend and told her I did it as well.

It all got messy as can't really go into it, but she wanted a relative to lie on a security check for her job to say she was single, risking 2 peoples jobs so I reported her.

Witchcat · 06/09/2010 16:45

I just think that the way tax is gathered is unfair. The tax not paid in evation is more than the amount you save on ISA's and you need a lot of money to make it profitable and worth while, so do the people who can afford to do this really need the money anyway?

The are both wrong IMO.

The OP did the right thing in reporting the fraud.

Dockering account books is fraud and people can go to prision for it.

Taking money that is not yours to take is morally wrong and in most cases illegal.

Mingg · 06/09/2010 16:49

Tax evasion is wrong and illegal witchcat - it is not however the same thing as tax planning (tax avoidance) which is legal.

deakell · 06/09/2010 16:53

Witchcat, you seem confused.

Again, please look up tax AVOIDANCE and tax EVASION.

The latter is illegal and can be punished through a custodial sentence, the former is perfectly legal; an ISA being an everyday, easy example of this. The need for the money is irrelevant really isn't it - you aren't subjected to different laws in this country just because you're got money (or conversely dont have money) and thank god for that.

What has any of this got to do with doctoring account books (which of course is dodgy, but may not necessarily result in fraud).

MoreSpamThanGlam · 06/09/2010 17:29

I think tax avoidance is morally wrong, as it is usually the wealthy that get the chance to do it. The average Joe is PAYE and in these times many people are living hand to mouth. Tax avoidance makes the wealthy even wealthier and I find that vulgar, especially when it is wealthy bankers and or businessmen that merely have money in the bank and are storing it up, not spending it to keep the economy floating.

StrictlyTory · 06/09/2010 17:42

Wow I love the fact that people wouldn't report a 'friend'... If your friend stabbed someone would you let that go too? A crime is a crime whether commited by a stranger or your sister.

They have committed a crime, the OP as a normal responsible member of society has reported it. She has done nothing wrong. Personally I couldn't be friends with thieves but that would just be my decision.

deakell · 06/09/2010 17:46

If you're self-employed (i.e. childminder, builder, landscaper - not well paid professions) you can utilise tax avoidance.

Dearie me, the level of speculation about tax matters and how it's worked out is shocking.

BerryLellow · 06/09/2010 17:55

Tax planning is very different to tax evasion. We're on a low income and need our accountant to sort this out so we aren't left with nothing out of our hard earned (self employed) money. But nice to know we're being vulgar...

brassband · 06/09/2010 18:06

'I applaud your courage buttercupp. Well done.'

i don't think sneakily ringing up to grass on your mate is courageous, it is cowardly.If you ARE courageous OP you would tell your friend that you had done it.

noddyholder · 06/09/2010 18:08

Busy body

Tortington · 06/09/2010 18:11

i dont believe what the op did was right

however i think half the blame lands with the 'friend' - if you tell people you are claiming fraudulently then you are as thick as a donkeys donger and for that reason its her own fault

HalfTermHero · 06/09/2010 18:11

YANBU. You reported a crime and a criminal. Fair enough and all credit to you.

ccpccp · 06/09/2010 18:39

Well done OP :)

You just have to read some of the attitudes on here to see that milking the benefits system has become a national pastime. There wouldnt be a need to report people if there was any honesty left.

Far reaching changes are on the way, and a lot of these people are going to get caught out.

Myleetlepony · 06/09/2010 18:43

I'm curious.

a) You realise that someone is fraudulently claiming benefit, which is a criminal act. You feel strongly that this is wrong, is it OK to report them?
b) You then become aware of exactly the same situation, but the person who is fraudulently claiming happens to be a "friend". So is it OK to report them?
Do some people think that it is always wrong to report benefit fraud, regardless of whether or not you feel the person doing so is a friend? And, if you think it's always wrong to report someone who is committing the crime of fraud, at what point do you think it is OK/the right thing to report a crime? Do you report it when it's burglary? Car crime? Assault? Murder? Fraud against a private individual maybe? Would you protect a "friend" if you suspected that they might have been involved in a murder or assault?

ZZZenAgain · 06/09/2010 18:49

I think when you reported her you stopped "being her friend" so I don't really understand why you are asking whether you should "continue being her friend".

Do you think it would feel right to keep meeting up/going out now?

emmyloulou · 06/09/2010 18:53

See, people will bitch and winge next year when their tax credits are cut, or child benefit is means tested possibly or some genuine sick lose DLA.

All in the means of slashing the welfare bill, yet you can have criminals, I won't sugar coat it that's what they are depleting the pot for the genuine and raising our taxes.

If someone admitted nicking out of your purse, or from your online banking would you not report it? It's the same thing exactly.

I reported the person I did as she wanted people to lie about being single to obtain a reference and clearance to work. She got told no under no uncertain terms would anyone lie and she explained it was because her bf was not supposed to be living with her.

She was my best friend I reported her and told her to her face, she expected others to loose their job and make fraudulent declerations to cover her criminal activity -no thanks.

ChippingIn · 06/09/2010 18:54

Interesting first post on MN.

If you were her friend you would have told her that you didn't think what she was doing was right and that if she didn't stop you would report it.

You are not brave or couragous - you are spineless and quite possibly look a lot like <a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=images.huffingtonpost.com/2010-05-13-files_troll_2.jpg&imgrefurl=www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-w-silberberg/troll-patrol_b_574004.html&h=352&w=320&sz=18&tbnid=yzZxmo3dH4wp_M:&tbnh=235&tbnw=214&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtroll%2Bpicture&zoom=1&q=troll+picture&hl=en&usg=__jC1I4kfggg-l2zHu7htxwlRazT0=&sa=X&ei=qyqFTM-ABJWQ4QaH5NHSBA&ved=0CBwQ9QEwAQ" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">this

hairytriangle · 06/09/2010 18:56

Yuk you sound like a mean and nasty person.

ccpccp · 06/09/2010 19:01

Its not an either/or situation though is it.

Report lines are anonymous. OP can remain friends and in a few weeks/months/years the cheat will get a knock at the door.

She'll need a shoulder to cry on when it all comes crashing down, which is more than she deserves TBH.

It must be hard for benefit cheats out there, getting paranoid that someone close has shopped them. Now that the media are focussing more and more on the crime and its impact, all those times they boasted about it could come back to haunt them. Knock knock knock.

I think thats the idea isnt it? :)