to distance my family from this man because of one outburst?

[EmmalinaC]

Here's the outburst...

DH and I and our DDs aged 4 and 1 were out walking in Hurtwood with a friend and his two DDs aged 4 and 2. It's a managed forest and is popular with hikers, dog-walkers, mountain-bikers etc. We've only known this family a few years but because they lived close by and our daughters are similar ages we beacme close very quickly. Anyway, we were all straggling along the track - DH and I up ahead with the younger girls, our friend behind with the two 4-year-olds - when 5 young lads on mountain bikes came toward us. DH and I stepped aside, they thanked us, I called back down the track that bikes were coming through. Our DD jumped on to the verge, his 4 year old DD stopped walking in the middle of the path. As they passed by she gave an almighty scream - eveyone believed one of them had hit her. The lads on bikes stopped to check if she was okay but before this could be ascertained, our friend, her father, grabbed one of them by the scruff, fist raised, screaming obscenities at him, threatening to kill him. The lads were terrified, the daughter still screaming. I established that she wasn't hurt 'just frightened' but still he ranted, screaming at them all to fuck off again and again, until they all did, visibly shaken. And then our friend said to his daughter 'it's alright darling, you know Daddy will always protect you'

DH and I were stunned that a grown man could be so aggressive towards teenagers in front of small children, who were visibly shaken. If it hadn't been so horrible it would almost have been funny.

He later apologised to me for swearing but frankly it's not the language that bothered me - I'm sure they've heard the word 'fuck' before - it's the complete loss of control and subsequent justification of it to his daughter.

DH thinks I'm being a bit PFB about the whole business so I thought I'd check with MN. Am I being unreasonable to not want my children spending time with this man? Or should I give him the benefit of the doubt and put it down to a bad day?

On the face of it he seems like a complete fruitcake.

In what way did he feel the bikes were endangering dd ?

Also why did he not pull dd to the side; that would genuinely be protecting her.

Bear in mind when talking to his DW that she is quite likely to have been conditioned to this sort of behaviour; and in all likelihood would not have married him if she had a rational view of such outbursts.

I think you may be doing his DW a massive favour by telling her that you no longer want to be friends with him because he is violent and that his behaviour was shocking and unacceptable. Chances are he is abusive at home and she has rationalised it as being normal, her fault, etc., etc.

To have someone else telling her that not only is it not normal, it is a reason for normal people not to associate with him, may give her a realisation that his behaviour is utterly unacceptable. Initially she may (with his encouragement) dismiss you as a princess, but long term your refusal to accept this behaviour as normal and calling it what it is - abusive - may well have an effect. This is all obviously conjecture and may be irrelevant, but it won't do them any harm to know that you think his behaviour is out of order. What a perfectly vile way to treat the poor kid on the bike. I'd be tempted to report it to the police myself - after all, a child was subjected to a criminal assault in your presence - but I realise that would make things ludicrously difficult for you.

Quite recently, I had to take the decision not to let my mother be alone with ds, because of a horrible, horrible loss of control she had.
There is absolutely no way I'd want this man near my kids if I were you. It is obviously more complicated because of their family situation though.

I really like HerBeatitude Wed 01-Sep-10 00:31:49. I think you're perfectly right & proper to tell her why you've decided to distance your family. She might not like it, but I bet there's a part of her waiting for some corroboration.

It's great that your kids understand sensible safety and team work. Shame your (ex-)friend isn't equipped to teach his own DCs the same.

No, I would not associate with him again with your children present.

I would definitely mention it to the wife and ask her if he is okay at home, perhaps give her the women's aid number or something? Just tell her that she can reach help if she needs to.

I am also worried for their children. This is going to sound over the top or paranoid I know, but perhaps you could mention it, and his name, or the children's names, to your Health Visitor or even NSPCC or similar? If it is a one off then no harm done, but if there are other concerns then hopefully this will also be flagged up to get help to them if needed.

You say it's an unhappy marriage, that his wife knows he has an unreasonable temper and can be a bully. It really sounds as though she could do with some support, whether it comes from you or not. Can you continue to meet up with her when he is not present? The number for women's aid is 0808 2000 247, by the way. She can phone whether she wants to stay with him or if she is thinking of leaving, they won't try to pressure her into anything, they will just listen.

You have a duty of care to your children to protect them from this man. All you can do for your friend's children is keep offering her support and ways out of the situation. It's a hard position to be in.

Oh and I definitely would not confront him about it directly!

Was there any further explanation for the "outburst" ?