for reporting nursery to ofsted...

[beccas]

DD has persistently had poo marks in her knickers, since joining pre-school room, most days in fact (3 days a week!). It started when she was 2yr 9mth and she is now 3yr 3mth. I don't expect her to be able to wipe on her own.
Their response was that according to child protection laws, if a child refuses assistance they are not allowed to touch the child. She would be desperate to rejoin the playing so I can imagine her saying No or denying she had done a No.2. I have instructed them several times to make sure she is clean but it still happens. I know it happens to plenty of other children too.

DD has had two serious UTI infections this year and has now got to have her kidneys scanned for damage, and take an antibiotic EVERY DAY for a year. The doctor said it was definitely caused by poor hygiene which certainly doesn't happen when she is with me.
I have reported them to Ofsted. Would you have done the same?

I dont get why you complained. You should have used your energy to teach your dd to either wipe her own bottom or ask for help. I expect had they forced her against her will you'd be moaning about that.

Nice drip feed there.

They sound a bit crap to be honest - I wonder if they are genuinely misinterpreting the child protection law.

If not though, reporting them to Ofsted is not actually going to HELP your daughter.

Let us know where it gets you, anyhoos, genuinely interested in where it goes from here.

Yanbu although my ds is only 9mo and not at nursery yet so I don't have much experience of this kind of thing. I wouldn't expect them to ask if shes wiped herself properly, just distract her and do it! Surely most 3 year olds have such a short attention span they'll just say they are clean so they can go back and play. I think failing to prevent her from becoming ill is neglect, surely ss would intervene if a child regularly had a shit covered bum at home

Think you are right to take her to another nursery hope you find one you like

YANBU and I am frankly at some of the posters on this thread.

I would be absolutely furious in your shoes.

Besides the obvious unpleasantness and discomfort for your daughter, the fact that it has actually caused her ill-health and they're not offering any solution, or trying to work with you to make things better speaks volumes.

Even though they can't actually wipe her bum, they could take the issue seriously and there's lots they could do to make the situation better. Speak to you about to agree an approach, and change her pants as a minimum.

I would be taking my child out of there pronto.

And you've done the right thing complaining to OFSTED. It won't help your DD, but it might help others.

Have you considered a CM? We've had a great experience with CMs. We've twice used www.childcare.co.uk (just moved) and ound a brilliant CM each time. What part of London are you in?

thank you lowrib - that's exactly how I feel. I have chosen a childminder and am waiting for a place to become vacant - it is booked, we just have to wait.
And yes, the reason to tell Ofsted is to protect others from the same fate.

What Waitingforathankyou said.

They do sound a bit pants (pardon the pun!!) but I wonder if reporting them will do much. Surely they will tell ofsted that she's been refusing to let them help and if that's the child protection rules then they'll be able to do swet FA anyway.

they are crap! Some 3yos are still in nappies - mine was one of them! What should they do in that situation?
Also very at a 3yo being able to wipe effectively

the CP rules cannot be that simple
My DS was in nappies until a couple of months ago - he is 3y4m
He never says yes to having his nappy changed - too dull. And yet, somehow, they managed it, he never came home with poo in his pants

So either he goes to the best nursery in the land or...expecting a nursery to help a small child with their toiletting is not that odd.

What Lowrib said.

Just adding my tuppenceworth, double check about her needing antibiotics for a year. Ds had 2 terrible UTIs at 20 months (not due to poor hygeine) and was on trimethroprim (sp) for 4 months until an appointment for a kidney scan then he could stop them. In between the UTI diagnosis and the scan several HCPs told me they didnt think he should be on the antibiotics and it was 'controversial' whilst others told me he should be on them. If there was any chance he'd have been on them for a YEAR I would definitely have asked for more definitive opinions.

Thanks TheUnmentioned.
This is the same medicine and we are going through same process - I was thinking that if scan is clear, surely she can stop antiB.
It was the top dog doctor himself who says a year. I am so upset about the medication situation.
I will perhaps post another day about trimethroprim for advice
x

I'm really glad to see a few more sane posters here. This thread really depressed me actually - not so much the OP but all the posters jumping on her saying it was her fault she should teach her DD to wipe her own bum and what was the point in reporting the nursery.

I told DP how miserable I was at how many mean, ignorant people there are about. I mean how can you fail to see that a nursery has a duty of care in this instance? Or not empathise with the OP when her DD has been made ill? Or see that reporting a nursery failing in its duty might help others and that this is a good thing?

I was going around muttering "no wonder the tories are in power ffs"

So thanks, you lot on this page, you've cheered me up a little, and I imagine the OP too no doubt.

Sorry if that seems a little OTT, think I'm just feeling a little over-toried today

Thankyou again lowrib - not OTT - but done in the true sense of Mumsnet! Can't bear the oneliners who bitch without considering the why's

I agree with lowrib YANBU.

Not OTT at all, and again, I agree with Lowrib.

Nursery should be acting as parents in your absence. What kind of parent would leave a small child with a dirty bottom on a regular basis? Ofsted are there for exactly this kind of thing. You have already raised it with them, they won't do anything about it, obvious next port of call is Ofsted.

And I too am shocked by those posters suggesting it's ok to leave a small, UTI-prone child of 3 years to wipe herself.

How long is she in nursery for? It would surely be easier to make sure your DD lets the staff know she is going to the toilet and asks for help? Most nurseries don't have enough staff to have one hanging around in the toilet all day but do have enough to help in there if needed or asked.

Or get her into the routine of pooing before nursery.

My DD is four and since she was 2.2 has told me she is going to the toilet, and if she needs help, and shouting 'I can do it myyyyseeelllllfffff!' since about 2.6.

YANBU. DD is 3 and can't wipe her own bum properly yet. I would be furious if her nursery left her in dirty knickers all day :(

yes but CKN, surely you can see all children are different, not all children are toilet trained at the same age?

I was having a chat with a (male) nursery assistant this afternoon about dd2's sore bot (also not a good wiper!) and was thinking how enlightened this all was... sure these CP rules must be phrased a bit differently?

Nursery staff are, ime, very caring people who want to look after the children in their care; and making sure the children are clean is surely an absolute basic. A rule that impeded that would be a silly rule indeed.

I understand that SPB, but the problem is that OPs child is refusing help or denying she has done a poo. It is unfortunate that this has lead to UTIs but I don't think the nursery can do anything else.

There was a mum at DD's nursery who would moan to anyone who would listen that her son regularly came home covered in shit (complete exaggeration!), she would change her child and say to him it was not his fault and well done for trying while cleaning him up.

If DD ever came home like that I would reinforce that she must ask the ladies for help if she did a poo and couldn't manage. If this child is not being taught that they must ask for help then how are the nursery to know?

Assuming the child is properly trained and not still learining, surely it is a bit traumatic for the potty trained child to be taken to the toilets regularly to check her knickers?

yeah, I do take your point - but surely either she is going to the toilet, in which case they know about it, or she is pooing in her pants, in which case they'd smell it??
Might have missed the point slightly, it's late, I have been doing some weird task called washing up...