more family issues - how would you respond to this reply from PIL?

[silverfrog]

Right, I fear this will be along one, so here goes.

we have a (at best) fractured relationship with dh's parents. they are toxic in the extreme, and we are currently not flavour of the month.

this stems from a big row last year, where we travelled a long way for their Golden Wedding anniversary, were treated appallingly (travel not easy for us, as dd1 (ASD) doesn't always cope well). due to several factors, but mostly dd1 being upset after the journey (overnight drive to the other end of the country), we missed seeing them for afternoon tea the day before the party. obviously the biggest crime in the world . we were due at the party the next day, family lunch at their house the day after that, family lunch at the place we were renting the day after that. plus we were staying for the week after, to see more of them too.

this led to FIL ranting at my step-children, who popped round with a box of chocs and a bottle of wine to apologise (dh and I were still calming/comforting dd1). step children were then 19 and 17, and were physically scared of their grandfather, who shouted a lot of abuse, and slammed the door in their faces. dh asked for an apology, this has never been forthcoming (sorry, just trying to give brief background to where we are now)

fast forward to this year, and PIL have been stirring things with dh's brothers. we don't get invited to BIL's 50th celebration. dh speaks to BIL, who confirms this is the reason behind non-invite.

dh is obviously hurt and upset, but trying to carry on even a fractured relationship with his parents.

so, we are holding a Christening party for our dds. sorry, but there is back story to this too. we originally didn't have dd1 Christened, but had a Naming ceremony (religious differences between dh & I, couldn't decide (amicably) which religion to go for, so hedged bets)

PIL not happy with this, and ranted on at us for years about how dd would be consigned forever to Purgatory if she died un-Christened . honeslty, FIL brought it up in every conversation we had.

dd2 came along, and we were still undecided about what to do, and also in the middle of dd1's ASD diagnosis, etc. lots of shit going on, really. so poor dd2 didn't even get a Naming.

last year, we had them both Christened, privately. dh & i had sorted out our differences, and the opportunity came up while staying with friends - there was a priest staying too (you couldn't make this up ), and he organised a quick service for us - all legit. we told PIL this last year (after the fact - it really was a spur of the moment thing, no-one was there apart form friends we were staying with)

anyway. back to today. we are finally holding a proper Christening party for the girls. It's more than that, really, as we have had a tough few years, but dd1 now settled at school - we fought the LA for that and won. we have been moving around alot to get the best school for dd1, and have recently moved again. life is feelign settled and good, and it's a time for celebration, for us. we decided to have a Christening party, as it would be a good reason to get all of dd2's Godparents together (who all know that they "missed" the Christening, as such, and are happy with this) - they haven't met as a group before.

so, we send an invite around, pretty much saying all of the above.

and PIL reply:

"Hello MrSilverfrog:
We ought to be grateful to have been copied into the many e-mail
addresses of your friends to join the celebration.

It is a great relief to learn that you eventually decided to have your
two girls christened. We have prayed for this to happen for a long
time and would have flown to anywhere to join this baptism.

A belated party for this event at such short notice is not the same
and does not convey the same spirit.

Your loving Parents."

the party is being held in 6 weeks time - a bit short notice, i suppose, but not like it's tomorrow.

dh is fuming. it just feels like such a kick in the teeth, especially following on from not being invited (due to his parents bitching) to the big family even that was his brother's 50th.

so, what would you do?

Oh silver frog I'm so sorry this has happened.

Firstly congratulations on getting dd1 needs sorted and taking the time and having a mature relationship with dh and discussing the needs of dd1 and religion.

Sorry if this has been answered but is it yours or DH religion you have had dd's christened into (you do not need answer if you don't want). I can't help wondering whether if its your religion then although they are happy with the christening they are not happy with the choice iyswim.

I can understand PIL upset at not being at the christening but can also see your reasoning - must have been great to do something on a whim (not easy with an ASD dc).

I agree with pp that you don't need to apologise to them but simply reply with something like 'It's a shame you don't want to join our celebration of our family life moving forward, its unfortunate you feel this way, thankyou for replying'.

I would also be very tempted as mentioned to send it to all original contacts.

It must be horrible to be used as an excuse. It sounds like they've behaved like this for ever and the family views it as normal and you as abnormal for not putting up with it.

I'd turn up anyway and make small talk to the ILs as though nothing was wrong but I'm bloody minded

All you can do is keep on protecting your DDs so they don't witness this behaviour or come to view it as acceptable and try to get with your life.

Why are you having a christening party if they were christened last year?
Your inlaws sound awful, but as they've already been christened I don't get the need for a party now, but then I'm an atheist who was a christian. To me a christening is about deciding to bring your child up according to a particular faith and having folk witnessing you saying that, plus it's often the first time extended family have seen a recently born baby in an infant baptism, so a celebration of new addition to the family as well. That has already been done. I'm not sure exactly what you are celebrating this year.
Why not just say "we're having a party". The christening seems a bit disconnected from it all, like having a party the year after you get married and saying it's a wedding party. It's not, it's just a party.

narky, yes, they have behaved like this forever. and I just can't be doing with it, tbh. life is too short.

I am not saying that they all have to love me (althoguh why not ). but there is no reason why we can't all rub along as a family, in the way that most families do - all veey nice and polite, even though we are never going to be best friends.

mumbar - hmm, tricky one.

as it happens, I am the same religion as PIL, and it is dh who is the odd one out! so don't think it can be that.

rebecca - we are celebrating (amongst other things, as already mentioned), both girls' (but in particular dd2's) christening.

yes, there has been a time lag. but the christening was not an organised affair, so couldn't have the party then.

and a lot of stuff has happened in between, including us not being in a position to host the party.

now we are, so we are doing so.

Silverfrog, I guess a conversation with the stepkids would hep, though: let them know that from your point of view, you understand why they want to see their grandparents, and equally that you'll support them if they don't - without it having to refer to what's going on now. (Which is mentaltastic.)

Your in- laws do not deserve to be included in anything your family does, shut them out and forget about them

Personally I would tell them not to bother and cut them out.

They are vile people who know that their son still tries to maintain contact so they behave exactly as they like and get away with it.

I wouldn't put up with it at all.

You weren't invited to BIL 50th because of their poison, they would be disinvited to the christening party. They will only spout bile there too and probably find some way to ruin it.

As has already been said, ignore this awful behaviour, send a message with a biblical reference about forgiveness, turn the other cheek type of thing. Then, re-invite them and leave it at that. Never say things that cannot be mended, imo. After all that, it will truly be their loss, everyone will know the lengths you went to to mend this rift and you will be respected for it by those that matter most, your children and DH and family. Your PIL are to be pitied, I hope you have a good outcome but whatever happens, enjoy your gathering.

Am loving the combination of Mintyhumbug's message and notquitenormal's 'send it to everyone'.

They deserve to be shown up for the petty foul nightmares they are - and, added bonus, if everyone sees it they won't be able to tell lies about how they were cruelly excluded...

FIl could be ill in some way, behavioural difficulties happen in all age groups.

notquitenormal's response looks fantastic to me. Definitely better then my first reaction of 'Well fuck off and die, then.'

Your FIL's behaviour sounds very narcissistic' silverfrog. Unfortunately, you're always going to be on the back foot with this type, unless you are direct, unafraid and straightforward with them.

I would respond to their email with something from you directly:

"I was saddened to receive your negative and un-Christian response to our invitation, not for myself in any way, but for DH, who is, after all, your son and your flesh and blood. That you continue to actively snub him and his family is unfair, but will ultimately mean that your loss will the biggest to bear in the end."

Your FIL is an emotional bully - there's only one way to deal with bullies, and that's tell 'em straight and unabashed.

thanks everyone

in fairness to PIL () they wouldn't ruin the day if they did come - they would eb charming, and genial, and life and soul of the party. they really would.

madaboutquavers - I love your response, and I would love to send it to them. but ti would just give them exactly what they need - a good reason to [pin why they do not see dh or their youngest grandchildren on me, due to my rude, obstreperous behaviour

so, I guess, the next question, is how do I help dh come to terms with the fact that his family are a bunch of narcissistic bullies?

I think I'd just reply with "I take it you're not coming then?" and then forget it.

Ah gwan, do NQN's Reply to All, you know you want to...

As for your second question, I don't know. DH's family aren't bullies but they're not interested in us, either, and it hurts him. Every time we visit he stresses beforehand and is down afterwards because it's always the same.

Am trying to just listen, acknowledge and encourage him to disengage a bit and think about changing how he reacts since we can't change their behaviour.

Not much success yet, mind you.

Silverfrog - you shouldn't do anything, let DH deal with them.

Talk to DH, tell him that you are no longer going to grease any social wheels with his family. Tell him that it is, of course, his choice how he handles them, but that in your view they need to learn to respect both of you and all of your children and until he is firm with them, they wont. Remind him that you would like them all to behave like one big family, rubbing along nicely, if not the best of friends etc but as they aren't going to change you feel the need to detach from the situation so that you aren't getting continually hurt by their behaviour.

Step back, disengage, let them get on with it...

So long as DH understands your limits (not visiting them, not having them stay etc) this should work.

I wish I had applied this to my situation, it would have saved me a lot of heart ache. I wanted us all to get along etc but they didn't - it's a damn shame but you can't make people change & become decent human beings just because you would like them to be!!

I do have to say though, it probably wasn't the best way to invite DH's parents to any event, let alone a Christening Party.

sounds to me like they don't need a reason at all silverfrog - they seem to already think any and all of their past behaviour is justified. How sad.
Can you reply with "How rude. You must do as you see fit then. You know where we are, if you decide you wish to be part of this celebration.". Or is that still too obstreperous? I lose patience with people who can't see past the end of their nose...

Just let your DH know you are there to support him no matter what. I'm sure he knows this already.

They sound remarkably similar to dp's parents(we call them the out laws)...end result was that dp told them that if they could not behave then they were not welcome to the 'party'.We have now no contact and haven't seen them for 10 years,dp is more than happy with this....they live about 4 hundred miles away so it's not difficult to avoid them!.They were divisive,judgemental,racist and two faced.When dd was born(we are not married)FOL asked us what we would tell her when people called her a bastard

blimey, Moraldefective - indeed.

ChippingIn - I don't engage with them already. Not my place to, and really, just can't be arsed. If MIL phones up, (rare, these days, given how out of favour dh is) she tends to ask straight away for dh if i answer the phone. suits me, actually.

I was, of course, polite in the past, and we used to chat amicably enough.

dh does understand my position, and is supportive of it (the not staying in our house/not visiting them position)

but the fact remains that dh is truly gutted baout losing his family. and the fact remains that before I came along, and we got married, his family all rubbed along well enough. yes, his parents were still narcissistic nutters, but the brothers all got on well enough. (his brothers seem to share the same view that second marriages are not valid. his elder brother has declined ot ever meet our 2 dds (he did briefly glance in their direction at the big do last year, but didn't really bother with them) and his younger brother has said outright that his only SIL is dh's ex, his only niece/nephew dh's children.

and so, however we face this, the reason his family are being so fucking stroppy is because of me.

and I have been a bit chippy at times - I've had some ridiculously inane conversations about dd1 and her disability, and I am not prepared to have those anymore, and have said so, which hasn't always gone down well. and I don't take well to everyone asking about dd2 only either. dd1 exists, and she deserves to be recognised.

I have spoken to dh this evening (he is away with work - as he is a lot, which is why invites were by email - easiest way for us to co-ordinate sometimes! althoguh point taken that not exactly Proper Manners) and he thinks they might be miffed they didn't get a proper invite too. although in their case a proper invite would be a Smythson's copperplate engraved card, with gilt edging, etc, and they were never going to get one of those

have just re-read their reply, and am now steaming over the "delighted you have decided to get your two girls christened" bit - it just sounds so impersonal, they couldn't even be bothered to use their names (of all the things I could get upset over! silly really)

anyway. am rambling now, so will shuffle off quietly.

Silverfrog whatever do you mean?? You don't have a selection of Smythson's copperplate engraved card, with gilt edging? Disgraceful.

your two girls - yes, I'd kind of missed that in your short, sucinct OP even, 'the girls' would have been OK, but considering everything else the your girls does seem rather distant and pointed.

OK - so just explain to me (as I'm clearly a little dim witted) where exactly they get all this utter shite information about second marriages not being recognised and how exactly that fits in with this being the MILs second marriage?? So, are all the boys bastards then?

In all seriousness, as this thread has grown it is clear his family is very disfunctional and would have been so, even if you hadn't come along as they all got older and less under MIL's control. You shouldn't feel in any way responsible or the cause of it.

I know it is your DH's parents and his brotherst really he needs to man up to the situation and tell them this his family are not putting up with that and until they can behave like decent human beings then fuck off you don't want any part of it.

Really - he needs to put you and all of his children first. Their attitude and behaviour towards you and your children is frankly disgraceful and he needs to recognise that and act accordingly.

Maybe if it was laid out to him like you have on here, rather than in dribs and drabs as you get it in RL he would see it 'as a whole' and appreciate how dreadful it really is.

Rant away on here though, it's good to let it all out amongst friends :)

You deserve better x

I think I would reply

"so is that 'yes thank you we'd be delighted to attend' or 'no we will not soil our boots in your heathen'ish second marriage home (our own is the most we can accept in one family)'? Perhaps you could delete one and reply as we need to know the numbers for the caterers"

Or maybe not.

How about your DH reply with, "sorry you weren't happy with the e-mail invitation to X & Y's party and that you won't be there. If you change your mind nearer the time please let me know".

The apology is just for the relatively impersonal e-mail invite but the rest keeps things open for them to make amends if they choose to.

about length of OP, but I wanted to try to convey background...

And yes, my housekeeping skills clearly not up to much since o have let the Smythsons invites drawer run bare (still, what else fo you expect of a commoner like me? Sadly this is PIL actual view...)

Hmmm. The second marriage bit. Well, PIL are Catholic, and so struggle with divorce, I guess. Except they didn't seem to struggle with the divorce (nothing to do with me, incidentally, was well before I came on the scene), only the re-marriage.

Obviously FIL first marriage is just Not Mentioned.

at the boys getting older and less under MIL control - the youngest of them is 45, hardly a young whippersnapper. The oldest grandchild is now 24, same age I was when I met dh.

Dh does see it as a whole, I think (there is a whole.lot more shit than set out here), but he doesn't really have anyone else he can talk it through with, and whenever we do, I am very wary of saying "i don't know why you still put up with it" too often -it is not my place to get him to break off contact with them.

He is mostly wary that, considering their age, they might die before he reconciled if he did, and that he would then feel a lot of guilt and anger, which I can understand in a way.

@ kewcumber's reply