to think a 12yo should be allowed to shave her legs?!

[AlgebraRocksMySocks]

Sorry I believe this is going over old MN ground but never mind, I'm annoyed and I'm going to rant!

I was chatting to my 12yo DSD1 (about to start yr8) as we were in Boots and I asked if she'd thought about shaving her legs. She said she really wants to and needs to, but her mum (DH's exW) won't let her. I heartily disagree with this, though I didn't tell DSD that as I'm very careful about not sounding bitchy about her mum IYSWIM.

I'm not saying all 12yos should shave, in fact DSD's twin (DSD2) has really fine, fair leg hair and she isn't at all fussed about shaving yet - lucky her I reckon! But DSD1 has really dark, quite thick hair - i.e. really obvious. TBH it's worse than mine would be without shaving. AFAIK she's not been teased about it at school (they wear trousers) which is good, but that's not the point, DSD1 wants to shave, she isn't happy with her legs. She's also pretty sensible and I'm sure she could do it properly/safely with practice.

The thing that gets me is, the reason exW has said no is because DSD1 tried it a while back and unsurprisingly cut her leg! Because her mum hasn't shown her how! DUH! ExW has said she will show DSD1 when she turns 13 (9m away) - could be worse but I don't understand why she needs to wait, the age seems a bit arbitrary.

I admit I feel quite strongly about this as in most ways my mum was really approachable BUT she didn't want me to shave. I did it covertly at 12yo, but could only find really old cream and naff disposables and ended up with severe rashes for months until I gradually learned to do it properly. :( (I did tell DSD1 this but not in a Therefore Your Mum Is Wrong type way)

I have been pondering for a few months whether to offer to buy the DSDs some lovely shaving stuff and show them how to do it - IF exW said it was ok. But as she's overtly said DSD is too young, I don't feel it's right to do this. I know from reading so many parenting threads that it's their mum's choice really so I won't interfere, but I'm still a bit and a teeny bit - AIBU?

Sorry that was quite a rant wasn't it

I remember my mum being really into age 13 being a teenager and how I'd get extra privileges then etc.

I haven't read all the posts but I confess I secretly started to borrow my older brothers razor by 12 to shave My mum never did discuss with me shaving or offer to buy me something like Veet. I just started to deal with it myself without her knowledge and it continued.

You're in a difficult situation though as it's your step daughter

Yes they should be allowed, my 10 year old begged me to do hers, she was almost 11 snd in year 6. I said she was too young at first and then she tried doing it herself and cut herself abit. I helped her then and she does her own now (age 11)..

Gingerali, if your daughter needed a bra, why did she not already have one? Why did her SM have to buy one?

my DH wants to go in all guns blazing as he is worried about his DD feeling self conscious, like with swimming etc as some of you have said. and he has the right to, he's her dad after all! but I've asked him not to because apart from the obvious tension it'd create, I reckon DSD would get in trouble for 'blabbing to her stepmum' :(

anyway he's agreed to wait until we're going girly shopping and he will ask what kind of wash stuff etc they need and bring it up then. he's actually against her shaving now (she got ears pierced at 9 and he was against that too) BUT he can see that it should be her choice.

"Bloody hell- we should be teaching young girls that it's the norm to whip off all body hair should we? Like it is something dirty and shameful?"

I see your point. But IMO and IME, sometimes when a parent prevents their DD from shaving it is like they are saying that shaving is 'dirty and shameful' because it's 'too grown up' and surely that is just as bad? shaving is just part of growing up. if she wasn't bothered about the hair it'd be a non issue!

What about hair removing cream (sorry if this has been mentioned)?

I realise you're in a difficult position as step-mother, but imo the mum is BU - if she's old enough to have hair that needs shaving*, then she's old enough to shave it. She will be going around looking 'grown-up' due to the hair anyway, so she ought to be allowed to deal with it like a grown-up would.

*yes I really do understand the arguments about why should we feel we have to shave, but it should be our choice; feeling self-conscious at such a tender age because you've been forbidden reasonable control over your changing body is just unfair.

Self-conscious 12 year old girls should not be asked to fight political battles about female hairiness.

It's not her Mum's job to "guide her into womanhood" if that guidance means she gets to set the timetable. This girl is becoming a woman at her own pace and it's not her mother's place to make it harder for her by interfering in things that are rightfully the girl's decision.

Anyway, it's also her Dad's job to guide her to adulthood and he things she should be allowed to shave, so presumably he'll sort it out and she won't be left mortified in front of her classmates for an entire school year just to mollify her mother.

"It's not her Mum's job to "guide her into womanhood" if that guidance means she gets to set the timetable."

Yes, exactly. Puberty sets the timetable, fgs! A girl with breasts and hairy legs is no more an innocent little child just because she is forced to go hairy and bra-less. Arbitrary age limits make no sense; it's almost like denying sanitary protection because they've started their periods early!

Also, I think the idea that a mother has some kind of exclusive right to "guidance into womanhood" (vomit) that nobody else should encroach on is totally arse about face.

Young girls becoming young women will choose for themselves, to a large extent, whom they turn to for help with these matters. It is ridiculous for a loving step mother who has been given an opening to help out her SD with something sensitive like this to feel she can't help because the mother will be pissed off.

What kind of adult expects another adult family member to refuse to help a child in this kind of situation?

A step-mother, an aunt, a friend of the family - it doesn't matter who it is, what matters is that the child is reaching out for guidance about this, and she should be heard and listened to by the person she has reached out to.

All of this is the child's decision to make, and the role of all the adults is to support her and make it all as easy as possible.

That means no squabbling about who gets to guide her where.

No criticism of you here OP, I can see why you're stepping back, but I think the whole situation is unfair on your SDD.

I didn't even ask my Mum if I could shave my legs. I just did it. I pinched my Dad's razor and did it. Neither of them noticed, tho I do remember my Dad complaining about his new razor head being blunt very quickly It never crossed my mind to ask permission to do it.

And for those of you saying that 12 is too young, when I was 11 I had pubes growing an inch down my thighs. That looks soooo good when you have to wear a leotard for PE when you have reached puberty a year before your classmates. Not! Shaving rash was far more preferable.

Op, I don't understand why you're trying to get involved? It's up to her Mum!

But for what it's worth, I don't think women should have to conform to this bollocks anyway never mind girls of 12.

yes it is unfair :( agree about no squabbling hence me telling DH to ask CALMLY!!! (he will try his best...) I will post back when he talks to her but I want to leave it a few days because I only talked to DSD about this today.

"who gets to guide her where" I like how you've worded this :) I have to say, I would really love the bonding of showing DSDs how to shave, but then I don't think their mum should miss out IYSWIM... just think it's really weird that she's not going to show them until age 13

It's not up to her Mum, it's up to her.

She's a person, not a teddy bear.

OP - it's possible they'd prefer to do with you. I think that's what matters really - would they like you to show them? Or maybe they'd prefer their Mum to do it?

I think if her mum has said she can do it when she's 13 then you are better of not getting involved.

FWIW I shaved my arms & legs at 9yrs old as everyone picked on me about them. Never did PE as a teenager either as all the other girls used to rip the piss out of me. No matter how much effort I made trying to get all the hair off it still looked awful.

Nowadays I wax and don't even own a skirt or go swimming .

I think hairy women are sexy, it's only the media and men who want women to look like little girls. Now it seems even little girls are not allowed to be as nature intended.
Gah!

FFS this isn't about sexiness, it's about a 12 year old girl who is self-conscious about her changing body and wants to conform with her peers' expectations of grooming.

The hair will grow back, so if she decides it's sexy later on then no harm done.

I think she doesn't care who shows her! but both the girls have always been very aware of not upsetting their mum by doing anything that appears to favour me over her. there have been incidents :(

This thread as got a little bit heavy.

My experience, I was 12 really hairy legs, didn't know the first thing about shaving. My mum didn't tell me or help me. It was not a case of I wanted to conform or be hairless and desirable at 12.

I was getting hairy on my legs and didn't like it, I knew at that age most women shave their armpits/legs, so I felt I should be too as it's clearly the stage I was at, ready to shave. I didn't want to be a hairy teenager, like I don't now I always shave regularly for MYSELF.

I was so glad that my step mum not so subtly bought me some nice shaving bits as a stocking filler. Plus lets be honest nowadays she will get the piss taken out of her at PE, like it or not, I don't see why any mum wouldn't consider this.

Is there a nice aunt who could help out so it wouldn't become another incident?

Does your DH have any sisters?

yes, but none who would help with this kind of thing TBH. love the idea of somebody else who isn't 'in competition' doing it though... (BTW I don't see it as that but I think exW does sometimes)

I met a woman recently who wouldn't use a childminder for her baby daughter because she was afraid the child might become attached to someone else.

I just really don't get that kind of insecurity. You're the MOTHER. Why do you need constant affirmation of your primacy?

I don't get that either. it makes me really sad, I don't think it's to do with her maternal feelings TBH - she has openly admitted (not to the kids thank god) that she doesn't actually feel much towards the girls in that way (unlike their DS who was planned) :( I think it's more about not wanting me to give them the maternal stuff IYSWIM.

YANBU at all. My parents didn't want me shaving my legs and I always thought it was very weird and controlling. I ended up buying a razor in secret and shaving in my bedroom which was rubbish.

I think you should help her bleach her lower legs(if she wants to). Include it in a full on pampering session with both girls.

I recommend Boots expert hair lightening cream.