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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

... or are there a lot of unpleasant threads about SEN in this section recently?

93 replies

sc13 · 23/08/2010 14:57

The one about ADHD not existing; the one about people with Asperger's getting lighter prison sentences; and more!
As the mother of a DS with autism, I am used to the hostility and the 'surely he's just being naughty' stuff, but this IS getting tedious.
Can we have more stuff about the elections, immigration, people on welfare, mothers not breastfeeding, mothers going to work, mothers NOT going to work - some different incendiary stuff please?
Or was there a massive anti-SEN backlash in the 'normal' world of parenting while I wasn't looking?

OP posts:
Jamieandhismagictorch · 23/08/2010 20:05

It is a real conundrum. I agree with Alouiseg, that I have learned an awful lot about SEN on MN, but it's a shame that it has sometimes come as an unintended side-effect of an OP by a bumptious wind-bag, and at the cost to the blood pressure of those of you who are dealing with these issues

wasuup3000 · 23/08/2010 20:05

Yeah that was katiestar she commented on the ADHD thread as well - something along the lines of ADHD kids needing a smack on their bum and how all 4 year olds meet the criteria for ADHD

Tiredmumno1 · 23/08/2010 20:31

I did threaten to report the thread, but i was tired when i said that, so i decided to wait and make a decision today.

and i decided not to -

  1. as i wanted everyone to see the pure ignorance of the op and a couple of others that agreed with it.

and -

  1. because other posters had taken their time to answer it

bret was told on so many occasions they wbu, so surely they should have said, fair enough maybe i am

and a small apology to those offended would not have been hard to do.

BialystockandBloom · 23/08/2010 20:48

Heracles: "There's a difference between being disablist and people expressing an opinion about disabilities.

And no one's suggesting silence, are they? The OP asks for fewer threads on certain subjects, I was simply pointing out that there is only one way to even possibly achieve such a thing. Personally I don't believe there are too many threads on any particuar subject: all is up for discussion in my world."

The difference is that no-one posts, for example, "AIBU to think that 'racism' is not real". If they did, it would be seen as offensive (because racism is real), and almost certainly deleted.

Whereas someone does post "AIBU to think that 'xyz [disability/condition] is not real" and the post stands. And is seen as not only not offensive by people such as you, but a legitimate debate and people "expressing an opinion".

The xyz conditions/disabilites recently 'debated' are actually real. For what purpose would you express an opinion on a real condition? It's like saying "AIBU to think that breast cancer [eg] wasn't nearly so prevalent when I was young".

Such threads often veil bigotry and discrimination under the guise of 'debate'.

sparky159 · 24/08/2010 00:07

oh its not just about ADHD not existing-
apparently-trans people dont exist either-
we have a very long road to tread-
and while the goverment keep giving theyre crap-and the arse lickers[sorry-people who are frightened of losing everything-and are willing to become "yes men"instead of fighting]-then we will always have to fight-
in fact-i think its a good thing that we all start and come together and fight-
black-white-disabled-non disabled-gay-trans working class-middle class-the bloody lot-
since we have all been given a load of bullshit-this might be a good time to fight back-
but unfornitaly-a lot wont-cos theyve believed the bullshit-and theyre too much up theyre own arses-
and others have got such a big plum in them gobs-that them cant spit it out-
the country is falling to bits-and everyone is being pitted against everyone else-shameful-if people cant see this-them need goggles-
this needs a uprising-but this wont happen.
everyone is losing everything-but them wont stand up.

Heracles · 24/08/2010 00:34

Bialystock: It's not the same though, is it? You're comparing a recognisable phenomenon with a medical condition. In fact, where's the harm in a thread asking if it's unreasonable to believe there's no such thing as racism? Is asking the question racist in and of itself? Of course it's not, that's the thinking of totalitarianism.

"Whereas someone does post "AIBU to think that 'xyz [disability/condition] is not real" and the post stands. And is seen as not only not offensive by people such as you, but a legitimate debate and people "expressing an opinion"."

Because that's what it is. That people are tired of having to explain this shit one more time is plain to see, that some may be offended by the question being asked is inevitable, but that's almost by the by. Where does one draw the line? I get tired of people who think mental health is just a case of pulling yourself together, it's an ignorant and largely discredited view, but who am I to demand the question should never be raised? What does that say about the person I am to demand any dissenters from the party line be denied a voice? My personal battle with mental health has been ugly and traumatic, but that oesn't give me carte blanche to silence other people. I reserve the right to be offended, should that be the case, I reserve the right to say Iim offended, should that be the case, but I've no right (and nor should I have) to demand punitive action against people who think differently from me.

That's what a forum's about, surely? That's when the format is at its best, when people are given a platform to air their views at the risk of making a fool of themselves or with the hope of maybe influencing the views of somebody else; at the risk of offending people or with the hope of finding like-minded souls.

"It's like saying "AIBU to think that breast cancer [eg] wasn't nearly so prevalent when I was young"."

Ye, I suppose it is. It's a silly thing to say, but bannable? Then you've drawn a line. Do you not think that the ADD thread (for instance) has produced some great posts? I've learned at least as much about the condition over those 600 posts than I knew before reading it. And even if I hadn't that's still no reason to deny people the platform to out themselves, whether deliberately or by their further actions within said threads.

"Such threads often veil bigotry and discrimination under the guise of 'debate'."

Mmm, perhaps they do, perhaps not; I'm usually loathe to ascribe motive behind posts; it's a crap-shoot at best and projecting at worst and neither reflects well on the person doing such a thing. But, for the sake of argument, lets say they 'often' do. So what? The problem isn't hearing the words, it's accepting the words, the point of view, the attitude. No one here's being asked or told to do that are they? Quite the opposite, in fact. People can either engage with the poster they disagree with (hopefully not lowering to standards they themsleves are decrying) or they have the option to ignore: a far more powerful tool than many people realise.

sc13 · 24/08/2010 12:33

I actually agree with Hercules to a point - censorship is what lies down the slope if you start banning things because they are offensive.
BUT at the same time, it does bother me that while I, an articulated adult, can fight back when I come across prejudice, my child can't, probably never will be able to, and I won't always be there to defend or reassure him.
Debate is great, but there needs to be a premise of mutual respect.
To take the most visible case on AIBU right now, someone who writes "Isn't this a lot of nonsense", rather than, say, "Are drugs really the answer for ADHD", or even "What are the diagnostic criteria for ADHD - do you think we're overmedicalizing", is taking him- or herself out of the terms of civilized debate.

OP posts:
5Foot5 · 24/08/2010 12:56

As someone lucky enough to have no personal experience of SEN can I just say that I feel I have learnt quite a lot from the MN threads that touch on this subject. Even the "bashing" ones lead to people arguing the other point of view and this is enlightening.

I believe that the presence of all those threads on MN will help to make me personally more tolerant and understanding on the subject.

So - while I do not for one moment support disablist posts I think they can lead to some positive outcomes.

One other thing - hope I don't get too flamed for this. I wonder whether some of the unsympathetic posts could be a backlash. Very, very often when someone in a thread describes the bad behaviour of a child in some social situation, e.g. the little monster in the soft play area or the child in a restaurant with no table manners whatsoever, there will always be a poster who defends this behaviour by saying "Have you considered that they might have SN?"

Well, I agree in some cases they might. But in the majority of these cases it probably is just what it appears - a badly behaved child.

wasuup3000 · 24/08/2010 13:18

Or maybe they are being just a child and the person in a thread such as one describing alleged "bad behaviour" may have forgotten that they were one once.

pagwatch · 24/08/2010 13:32

I think that many of us with children with SN have no problem with debate. We all go through periods of resenting having to justify ourselves all the time, both on here and in real life. But we recognise that debate can cultivate awareness and discussion can change minds and educate.

The problem is with deliberately vile posts - which do appear on here. They appear about SN just as they do about race or FF or benefits etc.

with other subject, like race, the thread is bearable because the person with poisonous views is challenged by the majority of the board. I have posted in support upon threads/topics with which I have no personal involevemnt and I know others do.

the problem with the SN threads is that the 'mainstream' posters go very quiet at the same time as the few tossers who show up regularly to take a pop at SN, join in.
So the experience, as a person to whom this is personal, is of being attcked while the majority ofthe world stands by not giving a shit.

i am not saying that is the truth of what is happening - I know some posters do contribute whether directly affected or not. But usually it is those living with SN having to stick up for themselves while the revoloting types spout shit which is deeply upsetting for some of us.

Personally I am ofthe view that I would rather know who these cunts are so I don't inadvertently take them for nice people ( and have actually done that before Grin) but at differenttimes, in different circumstances it can be crushing.

I think the free debate is all very well. But it doesn't work ifthose uninvolved won't step outside their personal bubble to support a vulnerable group

maryz · 24/08/2010 18:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

2shoes · 24/08/2010 18:42

can I just add a shocking fact here.
mos people who have a child with sn don't come on mn to deucate, they come on for the same reasons people with nt kids do.

maryz · 24/08/2010 18:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Goblinchild · 24/08/2010 18:51

'the problem with the SN threads is that the 'mainstream' posters go very quiet at the same time as the few tossers who show up regularly to take a pop at SN, join in.
So the experience, as a person to whom this is personal, is of being attacked while the majority of the world stands by not giving a shit.'

Which is rather like what often happens in RL when our teenage children are sometimes attacked verbally or worse when out and about.

Isn't that a Parable, all you out there of the Christian persuasion?

Goblinchild · 24/08/2010 18:55

I keep explaining to people too, and so does DS.
It works with many who have a brain able to function above that of a small reptile.

saintlydamemrsturnip · 24/08/2010 19:42

The other problem with educating is that you often have to use personal examples. Mostly these get ignored. I don't see why I should have to expose my child to ignoramuses on here. He gets gawped at enough in RL. Heck if every gawp has translated into the gift of a new word for ds1 he'd be holding sparkling conversations by now (rather than being non-verbal).

I think I've met my fill of ignorant people in the last however many years the autism has been obvious (about 9 I guess). I honestly can't be bothered anymore.

More and more I just concentrate on exposing my son to as many exciting and fun life experiences as possible. If the general public don't like that, well.... I no longer give a monkeys. If they're polite they'll keep their views to themselves.

saintlydamemrsturnip · 24/08/2010 19:46

Incidentally if someone wants to be educated about severe autism then I'd recommend the film the black balloon. Or the trailer to a mother's courage aka the sunshine boy (film not out yet). Or even the short film autism every day.

Those will cover the severe/moderate end of the spectrum.

sarah293 · 25/08/2010 09:26

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