Yay! Looks like Child Benefits are next on Dave's hitlist...

[cupcakesandbunting]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11009535

Speculation, my bum. We all know what's coming, Dave.

The UK is not a soft touch for benefits.

We are 14th out of the 29 OECD developed countries, spending a lower percentage of GDP on welfare than:

Denmark
Sweden
France
Germany
Belgium
Switzerland
Austria
Finland
Netherlands
Italy
Greece
Norway
Poland

So please stop using 'soft touch UK' as an excuse to withdraw support from those who need it. Either you're for or against the welfare system, then it's just how best to support people. This is a parenting website and IMO it's shameful how people want others to suffer rather than be supported.

Family allowance was introduced after the end of the second world war to encourage people to start having children again. Seems weird that it either hasn't been questioned before now, considering it has been running for over 60 years if people feel so strongly about it

and btw, income does increase usually over the year. Those of you on 20k now may have progression to be earning in the 40k ish region after decades of experience and training (or your partners) some will not, but most people who aspire to more do actually manage it with the right curcumstances . I am not meaning this to be patrnosing btw, just hopeful :)

The poor have just as much right to have kids as anyone else, as for people who have large families, well I think the world is dangerously over populated and no one should have more then 3 kids they shouldn't get CB for anymore then 3 or any other extras for that matter, let it be known if you have more then 3 you have to be 100% responsible for paying for em.

I think it's odd that some people cannot distinguish between others having a problem with "the poor" having children and those relying solely on benefits having children.

If the poor weren't allowed to reproduce, then I, DH and most of my friends wouldn't be here. I'm not on some Hitler-esque eugenics crusade whereby only the affluent can reproduce. But, I've been brought up to believe that you pay for what you have, kids included. I cannot afford another child right now (nor will I be able to any time soon, cheers again, Dave!) so I won't be having any. That is called being responsible. It's pretty stupid to bring children up in a household where the only bread coming in is government funded, not just on a financial level but on a moral level also.

I think everyone should keep their childbenefit, unless the government would like to make my childcare tax deductible. Then, I could happily wave good-bye to the "benefit". I give the government a whole lot morre than they give me. So if they just want to keep taking mine and leave me to pick up the pieces that will most certainy piss me off.

I can tolerate the increase in VAT. I can tolerate most of the cuts that are going on. But, I'm tired of this give and take relationship where I give and they take.

It's a pity Labour got us into this mess. But, whilst that is not the current government's fault, it is not mine either.

The government and I have a little disagreement on whether or not I am well off. Every month I am probably well of... until I pay my mammouth childcare bill. And then I very quickly made poor.

Some very good points there Ryoko.

What Strix just said...

I'm not saying people don't have the right to have children. Equally though, they don't have the 'right' to money from taxpayers. I seem to remember when I posted that I thought it was unfair that my Jobseekers Allowance was being stopped as I got almost no sympathy. I now receive nothing at all. I am living off my partner's income. Strange that it's OK for me to receive nothing while there is outcry for people to lose an outdated benefit.

Whether it's outdated or not isn't really the point, Hammy. I'm sorry that you lost your JSA, but am I right in thinking that it is only paid to you for a pre-determined amount of time and if you do not find work then it is stopped? You know this when you sign on, surely? I don't know your circumstances but I do think that the government should be about to tell the difference between those who genuinely need the JSA and the career doleys and the genuine needers should get it until they find work. My friend's DH works signing people on and he says that they know who the genuine people are and who the blaggers are.

However, if you are upset about your JSA being cut, rather than being negative about CB, you should understand how frustrating it is when part of your income that you rely on gets pulled from under your feet. You should be directing your frustration at habitual benefit claimants who think that the government pocket is there to pay their salary. As Strix said, families like ours pay enough into the system and get fuck all out of it. It's not people like us that are "bleeding the country dry", I'm afraid.

Hammy, meant to say that if you were genuinely in need of the JSA then you should have still been getting it, IMO.

JSA is a joke, if you have never worked you get it endlessly, if you have you get contribution based JSA which stops after a particular amount of time determined by the amount of time you was in work paying tax.

yet another fear for the long term unemployed, the fear that if you find a job get on your feet and loose the job your be worse off then never having a job.

oh and it's very nice that when you have a job they are more then happy to take your money and your other halfs money in equal measures as if you are individuals but if one of you ends up on the dole and the other one doesn't you are not counted as an individual anymore, your partners money is taken into account when they decide if you should get benefits or not and thats gross income as well just to make things worse.

My bet is children's prescription charges not being a universal benefit is next.

Agreed, Ryoko.

Really, I think that the entire benefits system needs a good shake-up. Not starting with middle-earners though because I do need my CB for my foie gras-infused beluga champagne, you understand?

Yup, and the NHS being a universal benefit. That's buggering off too...

No such thing as society, Riven. Get that clear in your head. Unless it's Dave's Big Society, which isn't really society, is it?

Oh, Riven. I don't think that even old Alf Garnett BarmyArmy would deny people in your situation any assistance, would they?

If they would then they are tossers.

"no-one going to comment on snoozathons numbers about what the UK spends on benefits as a % of gdp??
Nothing like facts getting in the way of right wing type ranting."

They're probably pottering in the garden, Riven

Thank you Ryoko for your comments. I don't begrudge anyone benefits when they need it. It's just easy to get a bit bitter about benefits as a whole when I've worked all my adult life and now that £65 a week actually makes a difference, it gets pulled-just because my partner works more than 26 hours a week!

Well, he is one of a kind, Riven. Luckily, some of us do have some empathy. Maybe if BA stays around for long enough it might rub off on him though I doubt it. People that pigheaded can rarely accept they're being an idiot.

"People that pigheaded can rarely accept they're being an idiot."

"Oh, Riven. I don't think that even old Alf Garnett BarmyArmy would deny people in your situation any assistance, would they? If they would then they are tossers."

Once more, the Left reveals its fundamental inability to engage in debate and discussion without recourse to personal abuse and ad hominem attacks.

Some very good post there ryoko.
I had no idea about the JSA situation- what a farce!

I'm 31 Long term unemployed, I've only been in paid work for the last 3 years.

I remember many a time seeing woman in tears in the job centre because they wouldn't give them any benefits, because there live in boyfriends/husbands where in work, crying and pleading saying that there other half gives them no money, I'm sure many where being honest.

My father (now an OAP) was a Civil Servant he gave my mum £60 a week and no more, no matter what to feed and cloth herself and 3 kids, there are plenty of arseholes out there.

I get angry by the Daily Fail types who think everyone on benefits are scroungers living it up, Going to the Job Centre is a depressing experience where you get treated like scum and all the so called help places also treat you like scum.

It's all a mess it all needs sorting out, but everyones circumstances are so different and difficult to prove, fuck knows how things can be made right so that the people who need help get it, those that don't, don't etc sadly I think it's impossible and you will all ways have people who desperately need help being told to sod off and really smart well off people working the system for money they shouldn't get.

Still shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth, any money is better then no money and there are countries with higher taxation then us giving people less.