Yay! Looks like Child Benefits are next on Dave's hitlist...

[cupcakesandbunting]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11009535

Speculation, my bum. We all know what's coming, Dave.

"Surely you did your sums before having children to check you could afford them?"

Erm, we did our sums to see if we could afford our child with what we were told we would be earning, the £80 from CB included. Why wouldn't we? If you take this argument to its logical conclusion then we should really have worked out if we could have afforded our child if DH lost his job/ if I lost my job/ if a new PM who strongly resembled Iggle Piggle was going to come and rob us blind when we weren't looking, but that last one was just a bad dream, right?

I do hope that when if Ravey Davey cuts CB for middle earners that this will be reflected in the amount of free childcare that we are entitled to per week so that I can actually work to top up to the amount lost? Hang on. That's going to be next, isn't it? I hope he's not reading this, don't want to be giving him ideas!

Haha, cupcakes i just came back to make exactly that first point! And what about those families earning nothing? Are they expected to have sat down wwith a calculator and worked out if they could afford a child without the jsa/income support/ whatever, leaving them with thin air? Is that ok? If that argument is going to be used, you can't pick and choose who you use it against.

Hammy02 - good point.

That's the thing - the very people who can't afford them are the very ones who crack on and sire them regardless.

It's well-known that the higher the educational attainment/income earnt, the later such women are likely to have children.

Those women at the bottom of this scale are far less likely to think twice about having children, not least because we are paying them to do so.

BA - you're "it's my riiight" to have a car argument is flawed.......as it's an international human right to be able to have a family..........funnily enough it's not a "right" to own a car

There's a lot to be said for scrapping the vast majority of benefits and just giving us a realistic tax allowance. Higher rate tax kicks in far too early, and lets not forget that income tax was only supposed to be a temporary measure

pmsl @ brought in to help repopulate the country after the war - there was talk of some sort of welfare state before the war - it just all had to wait until we'd all stopped dropping bombs on each other

Why don't you just toddle off, BarmyArmy? You're nothing but a wind-up merchant.

We are responsible; we sat down with our calculator and pencil when I was pregnant and worked out what our income was. We worked out that we could only afford twelve hours childcare per week, so I work fifteen (mum has DS a few hours too). Only having a salary for fifteen hours wasn't so bad because I get the CB for essentials too. But that's going to be cut, cheers Dave.

So are you categorising us of being those who "crack on and sire them regardless"? If so, kindly fuck off. Two of us work, we are solvent.

"Those women at the bottom of this scale are far less likely to think twice about having children, not least because we are paying them to do so."

Wow. They get pregnant on their own? If they can manage that, we should be supporting them.

Schoolboy error, BA.

Aouisieg - so what would be a realistic tax allowance? Bearing in mind that if you scrapped the things such as housing benefit, (one of the biggest expenditures after pensions) that without it there'd be no-one to keep you office clean if you live somewhere relatively expensive to live as they wouldn't be able to afford to house themselves there

oh yes tethers - I had my 3 boys TOTALLY on my own, no man involved, they were all immaculate conceptions

Well, that doesn't surprise me of you, toccata

No Tethersend the Fathers should be supporting them.

BA doesn't mention fathers. He implies that women get pregnant alone.

Did you have time to think about the question I asked you further upthread, Alouiseg?

BarmyArmy

You totally ignored all my points, can you address them? Or are you just going to keep using insulting language about the poor, and reiterate your hatred of the welfare state?

BA is everything that I loathe about staunch Tory supporters.

I started to think that 12k would be a good starting point for a tax allowance but our system is such an enormous mess it needs to be ripped down and reformed. More things need to be incentivized, instead of benefits we should be able to claim a tax refund on mortgage interest debt, healthcare, employing home "staff" Nannies, gardeners, cleaners.

I would take a leaf out of America's book and reward rather than penalise.

The firefighter, teacher question? I thought I replied.

The country is broke thanks to our prolific spending on benefits. Doesn't that tell you anything?

I'll not hold my breath for that answer then, Alouiseg.

x-post, sorry.

Did you? I couldn't see it... whereabouts?

That's not why the country is broke

The scrapping of CB wouldn't be so bad if the government would make it easier for me to work decent hours. As it is, (as I said earlier) I can't afford more childcare than I do already. Losing that £80 p/month will make it pretty much essential that I find more hours at work/get another job. What do I do with DS/how do I pay for it? I am more than willing to make up that £80 by earning it. Come on, Dave. Do let me know.

we should have let the banks fail! It would have been better to compensate the account holders than prop up an unsustainable company. :o

Banks? What on earth have banks got to do with it?

I thought the country was broke thanks to our prolific spending on benefits?

This is what arguing with a Tory looks like:

"There are social problems that lead to unhappiness, crime, drugs and teen pregnancy"

Tory: "Yes! It's WRONG!!!1!!"

"Ok, how can we solve these problems?"

"It's WRONG! People should be happy, intelligent, well-behaved and make all the right choices, like me!"

"Yeah well they don't, let's accept that shall we and look at ways of improving the situation"

"NO! People should do right things not wrong ones!!!"

"Yes, it's a shame they don't, it causes problems. How about we try xyz? It will help alleviate social problems, which are caused by poverty"

[Tory self-combusts]