To have politely "had a go at" this stranger on the train.

[BextheBambi]

Ok, bit of background. I'm quite an alternative looking woman, have a bit of a babyface and quite a few piercings. I understand that to some people piercings and tattoos are quite intimidating, mine are all quite small and silver. I don't want to be too "in your face". I'm also 7 1/2 months pregnant and it shows very prominently.

Anyway, after walking the length of the train to find a seat because all business men seem to try and avoid eye contact, so they don't have to give up their precious seat, I finally find a seat opposite this woman. She's an older business lady.

As I sit down she looks me up and down, tuts very loudly and proceeds to give me a look that I can only discribe as being "utterly disgusted". Now, at this point in time I'm very hormonal, achy and tired so I decided to ask her what exactly her problem was.
To which she answers "well you're hardly going to be a responsible mother" and that is verbatim. the guy next to me's mouth practically hits the floor.

AIBU to have said "I don't really think you can judge that just by looking at me. My apperance doesn't tell you anything. You'll probably be dissappointed to know that I'm not the product of 'your taxs' and actually come from a middle class background. Shock Horror"

OP - you were very restrained I think.

i would have just asked her why she thought that and let her embarrass herself even more. give her enough rope so to speak. i wouldn't have even justified myself. but well done for challenging her. i hope it changes her view of piercings and tattoos.

PosieParker, just because you preface a statement with "No judgements here," doesn't mean you are actually being non-judgemental. Your first post was really condescending.

Adolescence for most people is about finding out who they are, who they want to be. Then they settle into what they've decided on when they get into adulthood. [Obviously not as cut and dried as this as people do change throughout life, but as a general rule]. Some 'yoof' as you so politely put it come to the conclusion that they like piercings and tattoos - whether it is because it makes them stand out, or simply because they like the way they look. Others decide that actually they prefer not to have them. Either decision is fine.

I've got my piercings because, quite frankly, I have a very ordinary looking face, and it makes it look more interesting to me. My tattoo is there because it's an image which means a lot to me.

What any random on the street [or indeed the internet] thinks of it is irrelevant, because they don't know me, therefore they are not qualified to judge me.

And if anyone is going to judge me based on the fact that I have got piercings and a tattoo, I don't want to know them anyway. Because they're prejudiced, and I think that's a vile quality in a person.

"No, but doesn't the teardrop mean you have been in prison?"

AFAIK it is traditionally a sign of mourning for a dead loved one (usually gang members though). Although DP says it can also be a symbol of someone you have murdered.

This isn't to say that all teardrop tattoos are done for this reason, bearing in mind many traditional tattoos are now done for fashion reasons (eg. swallows)

bex Well done, no one should have to put up with comments like that

Posie and bitoffun... so which one of you was the awful woman on the train?

Snobear is now leaving the thread as it has gone from a thread about a nasty judgemental right-wing person, to one of those "tattoo" threads populated by nasty judgemental right-wing people.

I haven't said anything about tattoos at all. I just wonder why the OP used her middle-classness as evidence that she would be a good mother. And I thought it ironic that you were pissed off about somebody judging you, yet felt it was fair comment to insult her for being what? Old?

Meh.

I don't get the people who say 'oh well done for not swearing, I'd've sworn'.

Why? Why swear back at a daft comment? What does that show?

That they enjoy swearing? I love a good swear, me.

pointydog, I'm guessing that people are congratulating the OP for not swearing because they think it is admirable to be able to control oneself like that - however, they wouldn't have that level of self-control, so they would have sworn. They would not have been happy about swearing, as they understand it doesn't necessarily paint them in a brilliant light.

[I realise the use of 'oneself' looks a little pretentious; I've been spending a lot of time reading the dictionary today and can't remember what bog-standard word would go there...]

Bex - my BF since junior school (we're now 46) is an uber-cool evolved punky rebel who still looks about 18, when we were in Camden last year youngsters came up to us in a cafe and asked for her sig, sure that she was Amy Winehouse, she and I both had our children young, so they are now in their early 20s. She has copped for all this judgemental nonsense along the way, has taken it like water off a duck's back and continued to lead her life succesfully including running her own wedding dress design & production business. Her children are academic high-flyers, brilliantly behaved individuals in their own right, not clones of her, but they have always loved her style, she is a real individual. What a boring world it would be if we were all the same. I just wonder what we're going to be like when we're seriously old and she's still on the black beehive, tattoos and corset look while I've slipped into little old lady look !!! Well done for a good answer back :)

it's sad to just accept that when faced with a rude person, the uncontrollable response is to swear at a stranger.

It odesn't take that much control and it doesn't take much in teh way of manners either.

It's not my point of view. I'm probably TOO self-controlled, if there is such a thing; sometimes think I'd be happier if once in a while I just let go and did whatever the hell came to mind. I'm just guessing at other people's meanings.

I agree with you somewhat, anyway - for most people it shouldn't be that difficult to control the urge to swear. However, some people are going to find it harder, e.g. those who weren't taught good self-control skills as children, or who have current raging hormones making them more impulsive, etc.

Oh dear i seem to have sparked a bit of a debate, sorry!! Wasn't intended, I promise.
I think it's great when you see the older generation still doing their own individual thing.
I think the main reason people are saying well done for not swearing is probably cos they know how bloomin hormonal you get when your pregnant, hot and sweaty. I do have to admit that I have flown off the handle once or twice before but not at strangers.

Good one you, Bex.

I got a tattoo done when I was 18. It's very pretty but tbh wish that I'd never had it done, but I can live with it. I used to be a bit of a goth/rocker type when I was younger, still am at heart really. However, I dress pretty normally now just because I don't feel able to get away with the stuff I used to.So I go to mums and toddlers in "normal" clothes like cardis, skinny jeans, ballet flats etc, quite conservative. During the heatwave, I went to toddlers in a vest and honestly, you could have heard the jaws drop when a few of the other twats mums realised I was marked by satan tattooed! I bet I'd confuddled their poor little bonces with my RP accent and Cath Kidston cardis and then revealed my affliction. Mwah ha ha ha ha ha!

You will be a brilliant mum. Good luck.

I think you handled it brilliantly in the heat of the moment Bex. I probably would have been speechless in amazement at her rudeness.

This has got me thinking, lol, my beautiful DTwDs aged 22 are in their first year as Social Workers for two London boroughs' Chidrens' Services. I wonder whether their pierced noses, emo-ish looks and beautiful itallic script wrist tattoos helped them to get the jobs against the other 30 applicants?! ('Hello clients, I feel your pain, my tattoo hurt too!)

Brilliant Bex. i'm also fairly alternative dressing - although no tats or piercings at all. When I was pregnant I was just willing someone to make a comment about people like me getting pregnant so I could answer back "what, married church attending accountants?" hee hee.

BitOFun I agree with you about the "middle class" remark, I know the OP has said that it was a case of baby brain and that's fair enough, but since she's looking for opinions I'll say that I think it's every bit as offensive as what the other lady said, in its implication that being middle class somehow makes you respectable, or decent, or likely to be a good mum.

I'm not British and I just don't get the whole British obsession with class. I find it fairly pathetic that even those people who like to consider themselves alternative (though really, tattoos and piercings are quite commonplace these days, aren't they?) feel the need to put forward their middle class credentials when they feel threatened or judged.

And the gross stereotyping of the dreaded lesser classes who walk around saying "I'll have another baby so I can get a house innit" is not convincing me that there's not some serious snobbery going on there.

Spacehopper5 Tue 10-Aug-10 19:48:56
PP - are you seriously suggesting that people get tattoos to make a "statement"? This is the sort of 'daily express' opinion my grandmother would come out with. My tattoos were very carefully thought out. They have an underlying aesthetic that 'links' them all together, yet they are all individual pieces. To me, I am marking myself with permanent reminders; all my tattoos relate to aspects of my personality, virtues and morality, people whom I love, symbolic designs with underlying, personal meaning.

Do you understand the contradiction in your own post Spacehopper5?

"i'll keep my tatts, piercings, dm's, new rocks, and dyed hair and people like that can keep their twinset, pearls and bad attitude" erm, is that the alternative and mainstream uniforms nowadays? But seems to be so much more effort to deliver this 'I'm so different' statement.........shoes, hair, attire, piercings and a tattoo or five/.

Trouble with 'alternative' is that it's not is it? It's no more individual than 'sheeple' that you seem to want to be different than.

Am I the only one who has noted that the OP initiated the conflict by asking the "older business lady" " what exactly her problem was" ?

Good on you for challenging her perceptions but really isn't she the exception these days?

Every other mum at DS's prep school has some sort of tattoo or random piercing as does his form tutor who has a rather pretty design on her foot.

If we're assigning labels then I am a middle class professional thirty something and more of my friends have tatoos and piercings than don't. Hardly alternative is it?!

Shelpit, I don't think that's true: " ...she looks me up and down, tuts very loudly and proceeds to give me a look that I can only discribe as being "utterly disgusted"" - surely that was the initiation?