to think that this particular fantasy/fetish is always a bit wrong? (potentially sensitive)

[ThatGirlSarah]

Sorry, didn't want to put the details in the title, owing to the subject matter. I am a lurker here, only just registered!

Is a rape fantasy always wrong?

I'm basically asking because someone I met earlier this year has talked about this with me. There is a backstory, we have been involved (although not physically, more as friends with a spark if that makes sense?) and he has admitted to me that he likes to push physical boundaries. Eventually, he said his ultimate fantasy is rape. Now, I know for a fact that he is referring to a set up scenario (like any sexual fantasy, dressing up as a nurse or a bus conductor or whatever) and that he is not going to go out and rape a woman, but I also know that he is very into sexual dominance (although this is also only in a set up situation) and tying women up etc.

Like I said, we are not physically involved, I have never been so with him, but hypothetically speaking, if someone you knew or were involved with was to admit this to you, would you be worried, or would you take it as just a fantasy and no indication of anything else? There is absolutely nothing in his character to indicate he would ever harm a women, I suppose I'm just wondering where this type of fantasy comes from?

Any thoughts? TIA.

I'm not really sure where his fantasies came from Peabody, that was one of the things that was unnerving me. I mentioned earlier on that I thought there might've been childhood issues, but this really was a speculation and I have no idea if this is true or not. Previous sexual experiences are probably a more likely cause than childhood, but again, I really don't know.

Don't have a problem with the fantasy as such, everybody is entitled to their own sex life and personally quite like a bit of d & s. Would be concerned about him bringing this one up so early on though. This type of role play can only work if both parties trust the other the play within clear boundaries (safe words etc). And, tbh, if it's not something you are (or potentially are) into you're probably best walking away as you wouldn't be sexually compatible anyway.

I'm heading out now, but I will check for any responses later on today, thanks everyone :).

.

Just name changed for this but berries has just said what I was going to say

I enjoy rape fantasy but only with dh and only after we'd been together years. It's not something we ever discussed just something we discovered. I also like some quite hardcore porn too.

I think most people I know would be quite surprised if they found this out (hence the namechange!)

So imo it's not the fantasy that's always wrong but sometimes the person having it

I agree with everyone else that it's odd that it's something he's chosen to discuss with you at this stage of your relationship and would be inclined to say steer clear

It's a bit of a complicated scenario, even in BDSM circles.

In general: rape fantasy in a domination/submission scenario is unlikely to suggest that someone would rape in a criminal, non consensual way. People who are saying rape is not about sex are not wrong, but BDSM sex doesn't have to be about sex either, it is about power, and more importantly, the consensual exchange of power. Men (or women) who get off on domination, usually do so because of the extent of intimacy and trust this involves. In other words it is not the "taking" from their partner, but the fact that the partner is "giving". Rape is really the wrong word to use here, although it often is, an alternative is "consensual non-consent", which is effectively one partner saying to the other "you do what you want with me, because I trust you enough that I know you won't harm me". For the submissive side this can be very liberating, as it allows them to explore their "dirtiest" fantasies whilst "blaming" their partner, who "made" them do it. It would be usual for this to only happen in a situation where all parties involved knew each other well, and had discussed their likes, dislikes and limits. Some couples have very loving romantic relationships, but get up to stuff in the bedroom that would constitute horrendous abuse if it wasn't for the fact that it is all agreed in advance, it's just what floats their boats.
Incidentally, there are far more men wanting to submit to the horrible whims of dominant women, than those wanting to dominate women.

In this case:
Unless you have met this guy through a medium where a sexual relationship is implicit (like a dating site) or know him is a fetish context (like from a BDSM site, or have friends into BDSM) I would find it strange that he is discussing his sexual preferences with you at this stage. I suppose it depends on you, and the kind of conversations you usually have. If you tend to meet up and swap scone recipes, and one day he starts talking about rape fantasies, that it odd. If however you usually flirt, discuss your sex lives and preferences and are generally comfortable around each other (litmus test = would you admit your fantasies to him) then it might just be ok. Equally, I know a lot of people chat on MSN or whatever and can be very open through that medium, that would be less strange than coffee shop banter.
I wouldn't expect a fetishist to open up randomly over coffee unless there was a strong indicator that you had a potential relationship, were comfortable with each other, and he felt the need to make sure you were on the same sexual wavelength. Even then though, this is a pretty hardcore place to start, so I would be a bit cautious, and make it clear to him that this is not an interest of yours (assuming that is the case).

I don't think there is anything wrong with him having the fantasy per se - its possible (probable even) that he was talking about the dominant aspect of rape rather than the violent aspect of it (rape is not always violent and the assumption that it is - as on this thread is dangerous and damaging for those women who are raped without violence because they are less likely to be believed). If part of his fantasy was beating the crap out of the woman, it is a different matter and would of course be very wrong.

There is no way of knowing for sure which route his fantasy took, so if your instincts are telling you to steer clear then that is what you must do.

On the subject in general.....

One of my favourite authors is Iain Banks and there is a well written rape scene that was acting out a fantasy in Complicity. As the scene plays out the reader does not know it is consensual (he ties her up and has anal sex with her, but is not violent apart from the initial struggle) but is told when they are showering together afterwards - although she'd asked him to do it, she didn't know when it would happen.

The male character says he didn't like it because he didn't like being in the mindset of the rapist. The female character explains that for her the fantasy was all about being completely out of control but in a safe way - all she had to do to get him to stop was say his name out loud.

There is also a suggestion for a semi-rape fantasy in a sex games book I have from Anne Summers - they call it the 'hotel' fantasy where they suggest that the man puts on different aftershave and approaches the woman in the dark - the fantasy set-up supposedly being that the woman is staying in a hotel and has forgotten to lock the door when the 'stranger' enters and they have sex.

Am i right in thinking you havent actually met this man? So far hes just a cybershag?

Kelly - OP has said she went on a couple of dates with him and has stayed in touch since (I think email was mentioned, but possibly other forums....OP?). I'd be less inclined to be worried if this guy had mentioned it in a 'sexually charged' email exchange (or msn, as someone else mentioned) than I would be if he dropped it into conversation actually on one of the dates. OP, when did he mention it? Were you flirting or talking about sex? I notice you say you are not intending to meet him after what has been said here, but I'd be interested to know more about the circumstances anyway.

lenak - I was thinking of that scene from Complicity, too

The whole point, as everyone keeps saying, is the role-play aspect of fantasy sex. If it's a game, there is mutual respect between partners - and that includes respect for one another's boundaries: emotional and physical. The fact that OP's pal brought up the fantasy himself - and that she's questioning it - shows he has breached a boundary of hers. So it's time to stop that particular relationship; it's a bad sign.

For the sake of anyone coming late to this very interesting thread, I'll repeat this: A close friend described how, in his fantasy, he relished the fear on the woman's face. I ran this past an experienced policeman in my family. Without hesitation, he said "He's a rapist. If he hasn't raped yet, he will."

You see, that wasn't about 'being overcome with passion'. It was about being excited by a partner's fear.

I would run a mile from this guy.

Why put your self at risk?

I think it's crucial to note how this 'confession' came up. If you were, for instance, to have 'met' this person online in a chat room or dating site where your initial contact with him was sexual, it is not such a huge problem (not that I'm saying this should encourage you to meet up with him, because I think you are realising this is not such a hot idea now). But you have met and had a couple of dates with this man. Even if you were talking in depth about sex, I find it a bit strange that he is able to talk so openly with someone he doesn't know that much. He probably knows only too well that this is a subject that not many people would be comfortable hearing about, or one which would 'get him some', which to me makes it all the more strange that he brought it up so soon after meeting you. Better safe than sorry IMO, I wouldn't meet this guy again.

OP only read.

Normal people dont share intimate and obscure sexual fantasies wih people they are not yet in a sexual relationship with.

Well people do share their sexual fantasies with 'strangers' online, on sites dedicated to sex, flirting, hookups etc it;s not uncommon to talk about what you particularly like. And if the OP was one of those women who have 'rape fantasies' she would have been thrilled with him. But as the OP is not into BDSM or fantasy roleplay, he's no the man for her and TBH she should move on and stop the amateur psychology on someone who is no more than a passing stranger. Because this is starting to turn into tedious vanilla prurience now (Tel me all your icky kinky fantasies so I can be shocked and horrified and run off bleating with excitement).

You are right SGB, fantasies yes.. but not ones like that surely... And I know you'll say that everyone has the right to their own fantasies etc and that is true.

However I personally I think someone with healthy boundaries wouldnt tell a relative stranger that they were in to rape fantasies.. its pretty disrespectful as its such a sore subject for many women.

SGB usually I find your your comments absolutely spot on and admire you greatly but I beg to diametrically disagree this time: the OP is not out to psychoanalyse, she was just trying to make herself safe - wanting guidance as to whether this kind of shared information is a red flag or just something she has not come across before. I am glad she was able to ask on MN for this kind of advice - there is a group wisdom.

Personally, I see a red flag. A man you meet in a pub and with whom you have not had an intimate relationship tells you out of the blue that his fantasy is to rape a woman. Get the hell out of there. That is NOT normal. He could well be dangerous. Why take the risk?

notsocrates - I agree, I think this has been quite an educational thread. The OP has a right to be concerned and it's good that she asked questions. I am too glad she was able to use MN as a resource. Think your comment was slightly rude tbh SGB (which surprised me, as I too usually respect what you say).

OP, don't let that comment upset you, I think SGB might've got a bit confused about your motivations here.

I would be pretty horrified by any fantasy that by definition involves doing something that the other person really doesn't want them to do.

But maybe I'm just naive.

P.S. I know this is AIBU, but still I try not to rush a judgment onto anyone here, I wouldn't want a self confessed new poster to not come back because they were worried about a reaction. Sorry SGB, you might not have meant to be OTT, but it came off that way to me. :)

should probably have namechanged for this but decided would be better if you could see I was a genuine poster. I exchanged sexual fantasies with someone I was not in a sexual relationship with. Why? Because somehow I knew on some level he 'matched' mine. We had/have a lot of chemistry, Recognised something in each other probably. Think we were both pretty naive but the trust was there. And we took it further. We have a lot of problems in the relationship but sex isn't one of them . I think he is giving the OP the opportunity to say whether she would be interested in exploring this together.

Hi everyone. I'm still not changing my mind on this, but I feel like I've had an education anyway! I will not meet this man again. He probably is no threat to me, but while there is a chance he could be, I would never be able to myself with him anyway. So decision made on that point. SGB I'm not sure what exactly you mean with your assessment of me, but I can assure you this was a very serious discussion I initiated. I didn't start it expecting people to discuss their own fantasies, though in some instances they have really helped me see the difference between fantasy and potential reality, so I'm thankful people were so open. I'm not offended at what you said, but I think you've got me all wrong! notsocrates and LucyLouLou, you've both pretty much hit the nail on the head as far as my reasons for the OP were concerned. Why take the risk and thank God for MN as I got to discuss this, and I otherwise might not have at all. This is a bit of a hit and run post, sorry, I am home for all of about half an hour, I haven't had a proper chance to read everything yet, but I will try to when I get home tonight or in the morning. Thanks again :).

Thing is, if you're not inclined to this sort of fantasy, or to a bit of BDSM etc then it must seem extreme and potentially scary.

Women who fantasise (sp?) about rape generally don't want to be raped, more they want to do the really naughty stuff with the transfer of blame. I've never read into the male side of it, but I bet there is an awful lot more men thinking these thoughts than there are rapists.

There is an excellent lady author who studies this stuff, from fetish, to anal and loving kissing. I think it's Anne someone. Anyway - loads of people have sent their fantasy to her and she has written books with additional text to explain some of the brain workings behind these things.

It's human nature, and usually nothing to be scared of, but this sort of honesty is something I would expect to see in a long term relationship, or a kinky website match up - not the sort of situ you have! I would be a tad wary - as I think SGB has pointed out re the context, but to agree with her vanilla sentiment - we don't all think alike - I do things of a weekend that would send some posters screaming for the hills and I'm a hardworking, respectable, mum & professional!

Best wishes xx

As an aside, foureleven makes a very good point - which highlights why the context in this situation is a bit off!

I can't find the post where SGB was offensive

Can I just add, since we're talking of context, that the post quoting a policeman friend TWICE, stating "he will!" also needs to be viewed in context.

The policeman will be aware of those men who have raped and those offenders may well have had fantasies, which have escalated into deviant behaviour.

BUT

he cannot possibly speak with such certainty because he has no idea of the numbers of men/women who have such fantasies and who do not escalate into non-consensual sex. He will only encounter the % who do.