to think this formula company is dangerous and misleading?

[Starberries]

Going to the US in a couple of weeks to buy a few bits for baby due in a few months and see family.

Was browsing babiesrus.com website and found this Enfamil formula 'RestFull' which is marketed for babies 0-12 MONTHS that has RICE CARBOHYDRATE in it to thicken and make them sleep longer!!!

www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3711366

HOW ON EARTH is this legal??

"the hospitals wouldn't cope" WTF

Sorry - I don't know if I am just tired but I just cannot believe/understand what you are saying.

Surely if this was the case there would be a very very strict instruction not to change formula, rather than anecdotal!

Why do you think UNICEF say that there is "no need for the parents to stick to one brand."

Why do you think that countries with no advertising of follow on and bettere BF support have higher BF rates. How come people are not "choosing" FF there.

IMO it means that the "choice" in this country is a "choice" in a culture where FF is normal.

Its normalised until you have to get your breast out in public to feed your baby. At that point you can feel as tho you are doing something pretty abnormal! I feed wherever, after 62 months of feeding babies it does come easier, BUT! Even I feel uncomfortable at times whipping out a boob, so for a new mum.... please... In this country is is not normalised nearly enough!

Hopefully the children who see breastfeeding during their childhoods will grow up with a different outlook..............

"ask any HV" - I am afraid that I have found that a lot of their advice is not evidence based.

I suggest that the problems is that generally formula causes a lot of "constipation, upset stomachs, diarrhea" as you say. I do not think that this is because of changing brands - just that it is not ideally suited to babies!

Of course BF is "normal" in the biological sense.

"Normalise" means "To make normal, especially to cause to conform to a standard or norm:".

I believe that in the UK FFing has become normalised - i.e. the "standard" or the "norm".

Look at the FF figures at 6-8 weeks - 50.9% - add in the drop out rate up to 6m or a year and there are far far more babies being FF - therefore it is the "norm" in this country.

tabouleh, sorry to interject - do you have mike bradys email??

Another MN moral panic.

The company may be misleading, and I'd say a large % of advertising for any product is misleading. However, I question whether they set out to be dangerous. Formula companies want high turnover and big profits, but I doubt they sit in their offices planning how to harm babies.

Altinkum, babies are not harmed by swapping formulas....in general. Individual babies might experience a change in constipation/diarrhoea with one brand or another, but this is not general. It's ridiculous to suggest hospitals would be overwhelmed if babies did swap around.

It makes sense for parents to stick to one brand if they observe their baby seems comfortable on it, but beyond that, there's no reason to.

The myth grew up from marketing practices - in years gone by, hospitals often offered one brand only to parents, which they obtained free from the manufacturers. It was v. important to create the idea that the brand you start on should be the one you stick with - so once the brand had 'got' you, you continued to buy it. Hospital contracts were keenly fought over and there were other incentives on top of the free formula.

All this was outlawed about 15 years ago (I think) as it was anti-competitive - but the strong tradition remained that you had to stick with one brand.

UNICEF is an independent organisation in the sense that it has no financial interest in formula. It is one of many organisations, including our own dept of health, that advises there is no need to worry about swapping formula brands.

I'm sorry if this challenges some clearly deeply-held beliefs of yours, but these are the facts.

i can only speak from experience but i have found that babies under a year tend to have periods of being unsettled, windy, distressed, wakeful, etc

and there is often bugger all reason you can find for it

we want to have a concrete reason for everything, so we have the stock responses trotted out at these times

"teething"
"wind"
"something you've eaten" (if exclusively bf)

etc
etc
etc

if you had just changed formula and your baby was unsettled, you would blame the change in formula, of course you would

hence IMO the huge anecdotal evidence saying don't change formulas

it isn't always cause and effect, babies DO get unsettled
we don't always know why

but it totally suits the formula companies if we think their product is magic and the best thing possible for baby
they don't want us switching brands every week

altinkum you didn't REALLY mean to write that switching formulas was "lethal", did you?

i think on threads like these we should be careful to give correct information and not exaggerate or accidentally give misleading, scaremongering advice

KickArseQueen have a look here and you will find it in the first paragraph.

tiktok - phew - was hoping you would see this!

Altinkum - of course if babies are on specially prescribed formulas it would be inadvisable to change these. The HCPs advising them on these formulas would explain that they should not change. We are talking about the vast majority of babies on SMA/C&G/Aptamil/HIPP.

Have you even read the leaflet that I linked to?

^"Soya formula is made from soya, not cow?s milk. Soya formula contains high levels of a chemical called phytoestrogen which may have negative effects on babies and so should only be used in exceptional circumstances
and only under the recommendation of a doctor."^

I quoted that one statement from the UNICEF leaflet because you said "you shouldn't use, say apitmel one week, and then cow and gate say the next week etc".

I believe that the special formulas are available only from pharmacies and I don't think that parents are on the whole experimenting with them are they?

In fact I thought that they are prescription only? I believe that they are available on prescription and so would be free for babies. Isn't Nutramigen about £40 per can?

but you were not talking about allergic babies - you were talking generally
you said if (in gebneral) people swopped formulas that the hospitals would be full, and that it was like changing the formula of an allergic baby - lethal
i can't believe you meant this

Actually, I've suddenly remembered there was a poster comparing the make-up of different formulas, along with that of breastmilk, in the pumping room at the hospital I gave birth at.

However, the poster seemed a few years old, and as a layperson, I didn't know whether the differences listed were significant.

We were definitely not talking about the very special dietary needs of highly allergic babies.

In general, it does not matter one jot if babies change formula.

Soya formula has its own risks, but some non-breastfed babies who cannot tolerate cows milk formula need it. Speciality formulas may be essential for the few babies who become ill on cows milk formula.

This was not what you were saying, Altinkum. You made the ridiculous assertion that it was 'lethal' and that hospitals would be 'overwhelmed' if babies changed formula.

Yes, formulas are not identical. The normal kinds are roughly the same, but may have some differences in some of the minor additives, which will make no difference to the health of the vast majority of babies, who can switch and have a different brand every day, without this being 'lethal'.

Sheesh. I do hope no one is reading this who has to change formulas because of (perhaps) the shop running out, or going abroad for some time where the brands are different and who is now scared her baby will end up being in hospital as a result.

I hope they can read you have made a mistake and you withdraw your assertions !

Thanks for modifying what you are saying, Altinkum. No one has suggested that babies should change their formula every week.

I don't understand the rest of your post about soya, sorry.

Do you mean the link between cow milk protein allergy/intolerance and soya? It is common for a baby/child who has an intolerance/allergy to cow milk protein to also have an intolerance to soya.

Altinkum, I wonder if English is not your first language, because I'm getting more puzzled here and less confident you are reading and understanding what I say. Or else you are typing on an iPhone or summat!

There is no reason to tell mothers they should not switch formulas, and no reason to tell them they should, either.

You certainly can use aptimil one week and cow & gate the next - no harm at all. But there is no reason to deliberately do so.

The vast, vast majority of babies do not need and will not have speciality formulas like Pepti etc - they would be under the dietitian or paediatric dietitian, and not deciding to use these without medical advice.

Most regular brands of cows milk formula are close enough to each other for it not to be a concern - parents need to know that so-called Stage 1 and Stage 2 and so-called follow on are different, of course, and follow on is only for post 6 mths.