OK, so how would YOU change the welfare system?

[MathsMadMummy]

just wondering following on from various threads lately. sorry it's probably been done before.

I guess it's more a question of how you'd change the culture really, where people feel it's their entitlement to never work etc.

I have no idea what the answer is, please tell me your bright ideas

I don't claim anything except child benefit so don't know much about the system but I think the thing that needs to change is people's attitude. I think we are incredibly lucky in the uk to have that safety net there but to some its seen as a lifestyle choice.

exactly, but I have no idea how that will change. as with many lifestyle changes (such as trying to increase BF rates) you are faced with a choice of either drastically changing things, which will produce fast results but hurting people (in this case financially) in the short term. or you can opt for a gradual change that may not work, ever.

I'd crack down on fraud. But otherwise, what do you suggest doing. Letting people starve?

Not everybody is equal. Some people are cleverer than others, some people are more driven, more focused, more privileged. I think it's brutal to suggest that those with no advantages should be left to go up chimneys. And even those who've had every advantage can still be made redundant, lose their savings, be sacked, be left with three kids, be unable to afford to go out and work...

Crack down on fraud. That's it. but it's a very big IT.

yes exactly, you can't drastically stop welfare because people would starve. agree re: the fraud. at the same time though we need to educate the future generations, to give them aspirations etc. no idea how that will happen.

spend more on education and specifically, address (in schools) what posters in one of the other threads identified as lack of ambition among those who 'choose' to rely on the welfare state

raise taxes so it (welfare system) is properly funded

oh ok crack down on fraud

maybe it partly relates to celebrity culture? we see so much instant fame just for being on big brother or marrying a footballer, it gives the impression of being able to get rich by doing fuck all apart from maybe looking pretty it's all about money, not success or working hard or being good at your job.

people therefore want it all NOW without working for it and maybe then they don't see the point of actually just getting a job and finding enjoyment in it and a modest income.

think of all those girls who just want to marry someone rich. 'Future WAG' baby vest anyone?

I strongly believe (Paulo gets on soapbox) that everyone can do something, and for someone to be able to claim benefits, they should do something for their community - whether it's chatting to old people in residential care, or picking up litter from roadsides.

No-one should get money for doing nothing. I think this would also help people get back into the mindset of working.

Definitely crack down harder on fraud.

And basically, a return to the ideology that the Welfare System started with, ie: that it is a safety net for those in need, and should never be a lifestyle choice.

There needs to be a far greater differential between the highest possible income on benefits, and the income from the lowest paid job, so that people have the incentive to work and support themselves wherever possible.

Simplify the system.

While you have people moving into work, and realising they are only £10 a week better off in real terms, then you'll have people choosing not to work. If benefits provided a basic standard - ie roof over your head, cheap, but healthy food, necessary medical treatment, and the means to travel essential journeys, but not a lot more, and if working provided enough money for people to have choices, and to enhance their lives with all the other things they want, then more people would be in employment like a shot.

I don't know the detail of how you achieve these things though. I would also like to see disincentives for people who can't support themselves from having more and more children - eg if you already have 3 children, are unemployed and don't have adequate housing for more kids, then there should be adequate disincentives so that you don't go and have another kid. But it's very difficult to know how to achieve that, because obviously once children exist, a civilised state has a duty to protect them

that's quite a good idea.

IS scrapped when child goes to school

JSA stopped after 18 months for those who make no effort to apply for jobs.

Tax credits reduced

Child related benefits only for first 2 or 3

Scrap HIP grant

Scrap SS grant after 1st child

Capped housing benefit

Valium, why should the focused and driven support the lazy and feckless?

I agree with Paulo that (unless disabled), anyone getting benefit should do something for it.

sorry I meant Paulo but good post from Violet too

Better support for people starting low-paid jobs so that it is actually worth them working. Maybe tapered benefits continuing for the first year in work - some country/ies do this I'm sure. Working for a living has got to be made more attractive, as well as using the stick of cutting benefits.

Agree with violets post.

Because the 'lazy and feckless' may have children who need help getting out of that trap?

but Paolo, what do you do with your 3 under 3 while you pick litter?

Government funded childcare for this has been bandied about, but in reality it ends up costing the government £80 a day for 1 litter picker to work 5 hours for free, and the government still have to pay her income support on top of that.

It's not cost effective at all.

Send the children up chimneys?

raise the minimum wage? increase minimum wage for those with children?

make the well off pay more taxes and the less well off stop paying tax.

make people with over 3 bedroom houses give a home to a homeless/poor person

ITs a tough one because the benefits system should be there for people when they need it BUT you get lots of people thinking they have a right to benefits and a right not to work.

I believe that we should be lots tougher on those caught cheating benefits - ie the ones that say they cant work because they are disabled but are caught playing football etc - it takes the money away from those that are disabled and really cant work. Make then repay every penny and spend a long time repaying society

I also think those that are claiming IS - ie they can work then they should be made to do something in return for benefits - dont care what - pick up litter, clean streets, go to homeless shelter, volunteer in a shop

I also agree there should be a bigger gap between those working and those on benefits but Im not sure how you do this because that puts the onus on employers to increase wages - smaller businesses can not always do that

I think that if you choose to have more children on benefits then why should you get a bigger house

I think those with bigger council houses - ie the children have left home but still remain in a 3 bed home should be made to move into a smaller home

I also agree that people dont have any ambition - they seem to want to settle for less than they could achieve if they worked harder - Im not saying there is anything wrong with being in a low paid job it just seems that lots of our young people dont seem to be aiming high - perhaps they have all been dumbed down too much

tHE TAX CREDIT SYSTEM DOES IN EFFECT RAISE THE MIinimum wage for those with children. (sorry for caps)

I know a family with 5 children and neither adult works. On the surface of it, they are just being lazy but you scratch the surface, and their lives have been devastated by cancer - the husband lost his job because he had to take time off to care for the children while his wife was simply too sick. She's well now, but neither of them have a decent employment record, she hasn't worked for 8 years and he got sacked from being a binman (or refuse operative, whatever). They aren't the most employable people in the world and unless someone gives one of them a chance, they're going to stay on benefits - all because of cancer.

bring back national service!! and i'm not joking!!

oh and stop those lazy disabled people from sitting they could sweep the streets in thier wheelchairs. same goes for old people,they have zimmer frames

Crack down on fraud.

Don't increase benefits for more that 3 children.

Cap housing benefit. Build more low cost housing and scrap the right to buy.

Stop entitlement to IS once youngest child is in full-time school.