To think that a kiss between Henry VIII and Katherine Parr in the staged wedding at Hampton Court was a bit too much?

[GenevieveHawkings]

There we were watching the re-enactment of the wedding and Henry was just kissing her hand etc - all very modest - and then they went in and had several lingering kisses on the lips in very short succession. Me and my DH were nearly exploding, I'm sure it made other people squirm as much as it did us! It was very out of place and not very authentic and of the time I feel sure. It was a bit YUK really. I suppose they could be a couple in RL...? But really, it was all a bit "get a room".

To be fair, expat, at least she could write. Plenty of women - inc. noblewomen - couldn't, could they? Might her poor letters just suggest she didn't think to get someone to dictate to?

Mary Q of S was certainly rubbish at writing - there's fabulous letter in the British Library in which she apologises for her 'evull writting' (or similar). But that was mostly because she was brought up in the French Court so had ropy English, I think.

But there were also women a generation or two before that who simply weren't taught to write - it was assumed they'd have scribes to do it for them, so if they tried, their own writing was pretty poor.

Oh, plenty didn't write. It's not proven that Elizabeth of York could ever read or write.

Mary Stuart had lifelong problems with English, FWIW. Aside from growing up in a French court, many in her court also used Lowlands Scots rather than English and, well, though born technically over the border, Henry Lennox comfortably used Gaelic, which Mary also used.

Even during captivity, she still used French and Latin more than English.

Oh I Love Henry VIII.
My friend recommneded we go to Hever Castle. they have sqirting water maze, a maze, playground, and jousting.
Remind me which goes in which order with the:
divorced, beheaded, died, divorced beheaded, survived.

I can never remember whether it was

Anne Boleyn
Catherine of Aragon
Katherine Parr
Jane Seymour
Anne of Cleves

who is the 6th ? Is it Katehrine Howard ? why do i always forget her ?

CofA
AB
JS
A of C
KH
KP

thank you express

Edward IV also married for love. He ver much peeved his nobles by marrying Elizabeth Woodville, a widow with two sons.

Interestingly enough, Elizabeth's mother, Princess Jacquetta of Luxembourg and a Duke's widow, did something similar to Valois.

After her first husband's death, she married Elizabeth's father, a very studly, much-lower ranked man without royal permission who was known for his good looks and athletic prowess. She must have been a very wealthy widow, as she was fined about £1000 for this transgression.

Is she the one who was called a witch? Or was that someone else? Eleanor Cobham was, I know.

Re-enactors are always kissing, because they don't wash very much so the air around them is thick with pheromones, plus people do look quite sexy in certain kinds of historic costume. There's not a lot you can do about it, except avoid historic properties in the summer.

Jacquetta and her daughter, however, both had the gift of being very fertile and managed to produce offspring in the double digits without dying.

Although really, the aristocratic prize for this surely has to go to Emily Lennox, Duchess of Leinster, who bore 22 children and lived!

How many of her children lived, though, expat? Queen Anne had 6 children, none of whom made it into adulthood, 8 stillbirths and 4 miscarriages - what a terrible toll on her

Eight died before they were 5, but the rest lived, and I think of those about 3 or 4 died the same year they were born, but other than that, the rest has remarkably good odds.

She surpassed even Queen Charlotte in this respect.

expat, have you read Aristocrats/seen the TV series? I've only read it but I hear the series was good too. It's about Emily and her sisters - Emily sounds like a fantastic person (if, er, a leeetle bit slutty!).

Can you even imagine having 22 children?

Read the book! Didn't know there was a TV thing, have only been in the UK since 2001.

I only know because the front cover photo on my copy shows a still from it.

Oo, I saw the TV series years ago. Emily wasn't portraid as slutty though - she had to be extra patient and careful to get permission to marry Leinster.

Sarah Lennox was the promiscuous one according to the TV series. Which accorded to my vague sense of references to her in historical novels as well, but those are of course of dubious reliability!

Re Edward IV and E Woodville - I always put that down to marriage for lust rather than love. He always seemed flighty enough that he could have his head turned far too easily!

Anyone know much about the discussions over whether it was RIII or Henry VII who had the two princes murdered? I've heard it hypothesised that it was Henry a few times but never known if that's just based on the total lack of evidence for their fate, or whether there's specific reason to think they weren't already dead by 1485.